Pro-HSR Billboards Appear in Central Valley

Jun 26th, 2014 | Posted by

Californians For High Speed Rail is sponsoring pro-high speed rail billboards across the Central Valley, mostly on the Highway 99 corridor. Here’s one that recently went up in Bakersfield:

I love it.

  1. Observer
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 08:31
    #1

    I want one in my city! What is more, I want the jobs, clean air, and the opportunity that HSR will bring!

  2. Andy M
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 09:09
    #2

    A Bulleid Pacific. How nice.

    Eric Reply:

    should have some amtrak locos instead of the steamer.

    EJ Reply:

    Not sure that’s the message they’d like to send. People in the central valley like Amtrak.

    synonymouse Reply:

    They should have used the 4014 – to pique the Cheerleaders’ loathed Ewepee.

    Alan Reply:

    The UP probably claims trademark rights on the images of Big Boys, Challengers and GS4’s…

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Normal people can’t tell the difference between locomotives. Steam, diesel, electric much less recognize that there’s different kinds of steam locomotives beside “small” “medium” and “large”, if that.

    synonymouse Reply:

    The UP does not seem to take much interest in locomotives that are not native to the road. NIH I guess. A lot of people wanted the SP 4294 in the CSRM to get the rebuild but it is reputed to be in poor shape. I guess it was chosen for preservation because it was the last in the order, but if you have seen that great video of the last run in 1957 of the cab-aheads to Reno it was the 4274 that got the call.

    Daddy Warbucks Buffett of the BNSF seems to have zilch interest in railroad history preservation. What’s going on with the Santa Fe 2926?

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Because Warren Buffet lives in the 21st Century? And is old enough to remember steam locomotives and understands they are best kept in museums. BNSF isn’t in the museum business.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Yeah, Warren, pony up some couch change to put those two mouldering Santa Fe locomotive in Sac in the CSRM under cover.

    synonymouse Reply:

    All the Ritchie Riches are phonies – Fox too. They totally censored the story on Aereo at the Supreme Court. Conservatives ought to know they are being played and gamed by Fox, just another Hollywood outfit pandering.

    Alan Reply:

    Better explain that to the UP, then. They see their steam program as quite a PR and sales asset.

    Anyway, I was being sarcastic in my original comment…

    Mac Reply:

    Yes, they do. In fact, most of the Valley travelers won’t be able to afford the high speed rail prices…and will be fine with a slower ride on Amtrak with a much more reasonable price to boot.

    jimsf Reply:

    “most of the valley travelers wont be able to afford”

    that is a pretty broad brush. No doubt they will be able to get low enough fares because low fares deals will be offered just like with the airlines. The entire valley is not on welfare.
    Has anyone here ever even been to the san joaqin valley?

    jimsf Reply:

    visalia The median income for a household was $53,975, and for a family was $61,823
    not bad

    joe Reply:

    No data for Visalia but the cost of living in Bakersfield is about 35% less than SF.

    $63,000 is equal to earning $100,000 in SF.

    EJ Reply:

    Median household income in Bako is 51.6K. http://www.city-data.com/city/Bakersfield-California.html

    Not poverty by any means, but still in the realm where you’re watching your pennies.

    And as far as I can tell, if you’re living on 100K in SF, you’re not really high on the hog unless you’ve owned your house for a long time and have a low mortgage.

    Nathanael Reply:

    FWIW, Fresno’s a lot richer than Bakersfield.

    blankslate Reply:

    A family of four earning 51.6 in Bakersfield would be significantly better off than the same family earning 100 in sf.

    Duende78 Reply:

    Thanks for that comment. I do get tired of folks not from the valley telling us who live in the valley all about life in the valley. You’d think we were all impoverished bumpkins panhandling the street corners just trying to get by, instead of professionals who actually do travel from time to time and most certainly will be able to afford train fares. The coastal-centric opinions here are maddening to me sometimes.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    The fares on Amtrak California are heavily subsidized.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Prices have still gone up and it’s not cost effective for a family over driving.

    EJ Reply:

    Probably not that different from the East Coast. When I travel on the NEC, if my company is paying, I’ll spring for the Acela; when it’s my own money, I stick to the Northeast Regional, Metro North, NJ Transit, or MBTA.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Fresno won’t have the equivalent of Regionals or commuter trains. Probably not conventional Amtrak trains either.

    EJ Reply:

    It’s going to be interesting if they really try to shut down the San Joaquins, which serve a bunch of smaller cities which will never have HSR service. Would actually be a relevant service if it could run through the valley on its current alignment and hook into the main HSR line to get to LA, perhaps using, GASP, lightweight dual mode diesel trains like the Talgo XXI. (or Siemens Velaro based DMUs, or…)

    (See, Lewellan, I don’t hate the idea of dual mode diesel trains!)

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/CALIFORNIA13.pdf

    Take the annual ridership at the busiest of those very important small cities. Multiply by ten. Divide by 365 for an approximation of how many boardings and alightings there would be each day with ten times as many riders. Keep in mind that around half of them will be arriving and half of them will be departing. And that some of them will be going north and some of them south. Keep it easy and divide how many a day by four to approximate how many will be heading south, how many will be heading north, how many will be arriving from the south and how many will be arriving from the north. You need a bus once an hour. A small bus.

    That goes to the nearest HSR station because people aren’t stupid. They aren’t going to take a six hour train ride when they can take a 30 minute bus ride and 90 minute HSR ride.

    EJ Reply:

    Good thing we Californians have New Yorkers to explain our state to us!

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    It’s not my fault that you can’t figure out someplace without a whole lot of people isn’t going to generate a whole lot of people at the station whether it’s a train station or bus station.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Remembering that the “bunch of smaller cities” in Phase 1 are actually three:

    Wasco, pop 25K 30-40 minutes by road from Bakersfield HSR
    Corcoran, pop 23K, within 30 minutes of Hanford East HSR alternative
    Madera, pop 62K, 30-40 minutes from Fresno HSR

    Remembering that the largest of those, Madera, also has the San Joaquin corridor furthest from the center of town ….

    … and that none of those would be make as strong a case for a regional rail corridor as Visalia / Hanford East, where if it were possible to run a regional rail corridor on the crossing line, then Leemore / Armona / / Hanford downtown / Hanford East HSR / Goshen / Visalia Oak Ave / Visalia Walnut Ave / Farmersville / Exeter makes a more appealing regional rail corridor than Madera / Fresno, Corcoran / Hanford downtown / Hanford HSR or Wasco / Shafter / Rosedale / Bakersfield West / Bakersfield HSR.

    Nathanael Reply:

    I drive from Ithaca to Syracuse (60 minutes) to catch the train (and lots of people drive there to catch planes). People will drive from Wasco (smaller than Ithaca) for 30 minutes (half as long) to Bakersfield to catch the (faster) train.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Bruce, there’s only 153,000 people in all of Kings County. They all own cars, the highways are uncongested and you can park anywhere. Something has to change radically to get them to take mass transit. There has to be something within walking distance of the mass transit on the other end. Otherwise they’ll drive. Even if they got the urge to use something other than their car there aren’t enogh of them to be filling trains. Single trolley cars would be a stretch. Short buses maybe.

    EJ Reply:

    You’d really have to look at a map of the central valley to understand what we’re talking about, but you tend to get cranky when you do that. But thanks for telling us about the central valley lifestyle. I’ve lived in Southern California for 20 years, and let me tell you, New Yorkers coming out here and bloviating about California really never gets old.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Yer not gonna get 20,000 riders a day someplace that only has 153,000 people, It works that way in the rest of the world and it’s gonna work the same way in California.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    You’ve got this habit of presenting facts that support my argument as if they contradict it.

    Me: Even if they were considering local rail to connect to the HSR, this route (entirely in King County) would not be as attractive as this route (primarily connecting Tulare County to Hanford East HSR).

    You: Only 153,000 people live in all of King County!

    You’re making my point, since 451,000 people live in Tulare County. It seems likely that a large portion of the ~122K boardings at Hanford actually live in Tulare County.

    So, AS I POINTED OUT, a rail corridor that runs through Tulare County mostly East/West INTO King County to connect with the HSR station would be RELATIVELY MORE attractive, IF a rail service was being considered, than a rail corridor that was isolated to King County alone.

    As far as whether a population of 600,000 can get a rail service connecting to the HSR station ~ that depends on how many people decide they want it. Its not an easy task organizing the local support for something like that, and sitting back as a spectator and cheering for the efforts to fail so that a prediction of failure can be proven correct seems like a pointless exercise.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    People in Tulare county who want to go to LA or SF have little need for a trolley car to Lemoore. How many people live within walking distance of the proposed rail line and will use to get anywhere while there’s a car sitting in their driveway? The people who don’t live within walking distance of the trolley line won’t even think about it. What destination is there in Tulare or Kings county that doesn’t have lots of parking and lots of uncongested road leading to it?

    JB in PA Reply:

    http://www.kerncog.org/transportation-history-timeline/transportation-history-1900-to-1950

    1900
    Ninety-five percent of people travel by train. Ninety percent of freight was shipped by train.

    A vote to approve $100,000 in bonds for the Bakersfield and Kern Electric Railway was approved.

    Not Tulare but close. 100 years ago. Worked then and there are more people now.

    JB in PA Reply:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visalia_Electric_Railroad

    Passenger service abandoned 1924

    JB in PA Reply:

    Used to be dozens of railroads in California. Same all across the 48 states.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    How many automobiles were there in California in 1900?

    BruceMcF Reply:

    That’s JB in PA’s point ~ you are projecting from the status quo like its locked in concrete, instead of being created by a combination of policy decisions and technical possibilities that are both subject to substantial change in the coming decade. Predicting that there won’t be major changes in how people get around is normally accurate over any five year period, but over a longer period its been wrong, time and again.

    Whether or not people have an excessive amount of subsidized parking available, as in much of NYC, or a obscenely excessive amount of parking welfare, as in much of outer suburban America, will of course affect how much operating subsidy alternatives to the heavily subsidized driving will require. But the idea that the transport preferences of everyone in an area all fall in line with the choices that people make when they have no effective alternative available has been proven false time and again in this country, when people have had an alternative made available, including in places that according to the unthinking prejudices of many “everybody would rather drive”.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    How much of suburbia do you have to tear down and rebuild so there are enough people along the bus line that some of them for some trips use the bus? Where are they going to take the bus to?

    Alan Reply:

    Tracks require maintenance…

    Yes, they do. However, with the level of fast intermodal service on that part of the BNSF, I doubt that the additional expense of maintaining the line to passenger standards is great. In any event, it would be covered in the track access charge, just as it is now.

    jimsf Reply:

    The counties just got done forming a brand new jpa for the san joqquins I imagine they won’t let them go away.

    Michael Reply:

    How’s this for a thought… ACE and the San Joaquins will merge when the IOS is up and running.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    That’s not a news flash: the last HSR Business Plan described just such a merged, Northern California Unified Service. But that’s not all: the new San Joaquin Regional Rail Commission now will rely more on local funding than state support. Just ask Dan Leavitt, former CAHSRA operative who works for SJRRC.

    What isn’t know is what happens to the San Joaquins south of Merced. My guess is that the at first the San Joaquin’s will stay with new rolling stock that let’s them go much faster on the HSR track. Over time, I think more traffic will route from San Jose and less to Sacramento. At some point though, they will have to decide what is viable and I bet the current Amtrak California routes are either eliminated or modified to serve HSR’s needs.

    Alan Reply:

    Ted, I see no reason why HSR and the San Joaquins cannot coexist. The comparison, of course, would be to the Northeast Corridor, where Acela and Northeast Regional services work together, with the Regionals making more stops than the Acelas. The difference between the NEC and California is that California HSR and the San Joaquins would operate on different tracks. The San Joaquins would continue to serve local intra-region needs as well as acting as feeders to HSR. Until HSR is built to Sacramento, the San Joaquins will continue to be the only rail link between that city and Merced and points south in the CV and beyond. Without going back through the documents, I believe that the HSR business plan and/or EIR’s touch on this subject.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    The Regionals stop places where there are lots of people.

    wdobner Reply:

    May as well lump the southern end of Caltrain and Capitol Corridor into the unified service. Make Caltrain the Tamien to San Fran electrified service and give the Gilroy, Salinas, or Monterey service over to some brand under Amtrak California. Gilroy would probably see an increase in rail service, and San Jose would provide the connection to Monterey.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    It marginally better for Monterey County residents to connect at Gilroy from a Salinas extension of the Capitol Corridor to an HSR southern alignment alternative than at Fremont / Union City to an HSR northern alignment alternative. For the highest demand trips, it seeems on the face of it that part (though perhaps not all) of the difference in travel time in the Capitol Corridor would be made up by likely connecting to the TransCal SuperExpress rather than to an all-HSR-stations Transcal Express.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Monterey County riders would probably be connecting on the faster 101.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    “…the only difference would be that in California you have separate tracks”.

    Exactamundo. Tracks require maintenance. Even if you have HSR passengers subsidize the cost of maintenance for legacy tracks, it’s still a lot of money for very few people not traveling to Corcoran Prison. Four tracks will be possible elsewhere in the system, but not through California’s Outback. The NCUS will go no further south on legacy tracks than Merced.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    @Alon, you are right, by that time oil will be dear enough that putting the alignment on no longer needed highway lanes may be more cost effective.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Electric cars take up the same amount of space on the road.

    Observer Reply:

    Note that put together the Fresno and Bakersfield airports handle about 3 million passengers a year. If San Joaquin valley residents can afford to fly, they will ride HSR, probably in greater numbers.

    francis Reply:

    or a bunch of old cars stuck in traffic on the 99

    Observer Reply:

    More comparative advertising would help perhaps.

    jimsf Reply:

    or “with high speed rail, you’d be in Burbank by now”

    of course, “high speed rail” is a term that has GOT to GO. ugh.. its dreadful from an advertising standpoint. There is nothing sexy or interesting about it. Its too clunky.
    They need to give this thing a brand name sooner rather than later, if they want to market it now.

    joe Reply:

    I’d probably reuse an old name of a successful rail line.

    Or something that explains what it does
    Trans-California Rail – TCR

    Or CalExpress.

    or change Caltrain back to Peninsula Commuter and name HSR CalTrain.

    Using that name could give one guy who posts here an embolism.

    jimsf Reply:

    lol. Well the name has to be something purley and deeply californian and The trains must have the bear flag emblem on them.

    joe Reply:

    The “BEAR”

    Betcha
    Expected
    Altamont
    Rail

    jimsf Reply:

    lol!

    Michael Reply:

    ICE – InterCity Express. Works for the Germans. The white with red stripe livery can easily accommodate some nice abstraction of the flag of the California Republic.

    jimsf Reply:

    yes I never liked white paint but in this case you are right white, red stripe, bear

    jimsf Reply:

    ICE IntraCaliforniaExpress

    Ted Judah Reply:

    I think a better avatar would be that other most famous California animal to go extinct, the Condor.

    Come up with a brand for intercity service and the commute ops and we are done.

    Eric Reply:

    Weren’t they using the name “Gold Rush” in early advertisements?

    Joe Reply:

    I like the Condor.
    Maybe an actual size outline of the wing span on the doors. The nose of the train painted like a beak.

    Texas can fasten long horns on the front of thier trains.

    Florida can use the manatee for thier slower speed rail.

    Reality Check Reply:

    Condor!? A swift or falcon — both super-fast birds — would be a far more appropriate bird mascot.

    Some species of swifts are among the fastest animals on the planet, with some of the fastest measured flight speeds of any bird.

    […]

    Swifts are the most aerial of birds. Larger species are amongst the fastest fliers in the animal kingdom, with the white-throated needletail having been reported flying at up to 169 km/h (105 mph). Even the common swift can cruise at a maximum speed of 31 metres per second (112 km/h, 70 mph). In a single year the common swift can cover at least 200,000 km.

    […]

    The peregrine [falcon] is renowned for its speed, reaching over 322 km/h (200 mph) during its characteristic hunting stoop (high speed dive),[6] making it the fastest member of the animal kingdom. According to a National Geographic TV programme, the highest measured speed of a peregrine falcon is 389 km/h (242 mph).

    Alon Levy Reply:

    There’s already a transportation service called Condor.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    Turkey Buzzard.

    Somewhat slow and ungainly. Efficient scavenger of once viable and now putrid corpses (carbon mitigation taxes, or anything else PB rent-seekers can feast upon.)

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Instead of arguing which bird to use, go for a compromise and call the service Byakhee.

    Arguments for:
    – It’s out of copyright.
    – Byakhees are described as “not altogether crows, nor moles, nor buzzards, nor ants, nor vampire bats, nor decomposed human beings; but something I cannot and must not recall.” Compromise solution, as noted above.
    – There’s a lot of preexisting artwork, much of it free.
    – Byakhees are known for making anyone who sees them go insane, which describes HSR pretty well.

    Arguments against:
    – The originator was a racist, a sexist, and a nativist.
    – The name is native to New England and not California.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Another option would be to call it the Shibboleth, but people might get the wrong idea…

    If you don’t like an animal avatar, what about giving a nod to Elon Musk and calling it a GigaTrain?

    jimsf Reply:

    Monarch. state butterfly

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Ooh Good one Jim! Monarchs travel up and down the state. Not sure how we do a orange and black paint scheme though! And calling the service “Monarch” would be very clever.

    jimsf Reply:

    and everyone likes butterflies the name has a lightness to it. butterflies aren’t stressful ( except for Mothra)

    jimsf Reply:

    and you don’t worry about paiting the train orange and black, you paint it white with the red stripe and grizzly bear like the flag, then have the monarch landing on the grizzly bear’s nose lol.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Mozilla Bugzilla Chipzilla Trainzilla…

    Alan Reply:

    Why not run a contest for the best name? Offer maybe $500 or a thousand bucks for the winner. Get the public involved in a positive way, and save 10 or 20 thousand that some marketing consultant would charge…

    Observer Reply:

    Very good idea. It should be done. Beat the consultants to it while it is possible.

    jimsf Reply:

    The out with the old pic should have been a pic of 99 at rush hour

    BruceMcF Reply:

    True that. A billboard in the Valley with a pic of 99 at rush hour and “Fresno to LA in 90 Minutes: The Valley / LA Express Train”. Call every service on the HSR an “Express Train”, since even an all-HSR-stations is an Express compared to the Amtrak-CA services. Call the limited station services “Super Express”.

    Instead of “Blended Operation” for the finished phase 1, which sounds like a fruit smoothie bar, call it the “Bay / LA Super Express Train”. The haters gonna hate no matter what you do, so may as well be brash and optimistic.

    jimsf Reply:

    It has to be named with a single word.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Acela seems to be working well for Amtrak, license that. And cross honor the perk card.

    jimsf Reply:

    i wonder if hsr will have “mtropolitan lounges” in the stations for first class customers

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    That’s for the sleeping car passengers in hinterlands. The Acela passengers use the Acela Club lounges in South Station, Penn Station, 30th Street and Union Station. And the facilities at Citifield and Prudential Center and Verizon Center. And people who have the high end United frequent flyer card.

    jimsf Reply:

    oh I didn’t even know there was a difference. the things you learn around here!

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Superexpress is one word. If you say it fast.

    jimsf Reply:

    actually you have name it a single word, a noun that californians can put “THE” in front of. Cuz ya know we love to put “THE” in front of stuff.

    Take the bart, take th amtrak, take the 405 to the 10.

    That putting “the” infront of freeways started in socal, back when “hella” was a norcal thing.

    So I say call it “The Hella fast train”

    cuz ya know thats what we gonna call it anyway.

    Clem Reply:

    The Hyperloop

    jimsf Reply:

    the hyperloop sounds like a place for ADD kids to play

    synonymouse Reply:

    Supported DuoRail

    Reality Check Reply:

    CalSpeed

    jimsf Reply:

    CalSTAR california statewide train across regions

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    and they have those kewl helicopters.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calstar#mediaviewer/File:Calstar_EC135.JPG

    jonathan Reply:

    Bullied Pacific? Spam-can, or rebuilt?? Enquiring minds want to know.
    And do you have something against timing chains???

    Besides, all I see is a duck-bill Shinkansen (700 series?) with a Photoshopped Cal livery.

    Paul Dyson Reply:

    Obviously rebuilt, Jonathan, a spamcan is recognizable at any distance. I signed on the year after they were taken out of service and Bournemouth electrification was completed. (sigh).

    Paul Dyson Reply:

    Good eye Andy. Didn’t recognize the tender. Any idea which class?

  3. J. Wong
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 10:10
    #3

    World Cup 2030 in California with HSR to get fans to stadiums in No. Cal. and So. Cal.

    Observer Reply:

    Good stadiums, world class tourist sights, perfect weather; HSR would make it easy.

    Eric Reply:

    If only Americans were interested in soccer (except for their team once every 4 years).

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Last time the US hosted the World Cup, they got people to the stadiums.

    Heck, when a US city hosts the Olympics, there are Americans who can’t get tickets to the 100m sprint finals who convince themselves that they are interested in the hammer throw.

  4. Brian_FL
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 10:51
    #4

    Off Topic: looks like plans for the private TX HSR project are moving forward. A notice put up yesterday on the FRA website:

    Central Texas High Speed Rail – Passenger Service from Houston to Dallas
    Environmental Impact Statement
    The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA), in cooperation with Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) will prepare an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the Central Texas High-Speed Rail Corridor. The proposed corridor will connect Dallas and Houston with a dedicated High Speed Rail (HSR) system proposed by a private company, Texas Central Railway (TCR). TCR plans to build and operate a HSR system that will allow easy and convenient connections with other transportation services in Houston and Dallas. As part of the EIS, the impacts of various alternative HSR route alignments will be analyzed including shared corridors with an existing rail line and along electric utility lines. The TCR’s proposed high speed line will operate on a dedicated right-of-way and would not share track or infrastructure with existing trains and rail lines. In addition, the EIS will analyze the potential impacts of stations, power or fueling stations, and maintenance facilities to support HSR operations.

    http://www.fra.dot.gov/Page/P0700

    EJ Reply:

    They still haven’t put a line on a map, which IIRC they had promised by April. Real curious to see what the public reaction is to that – once people see who gets served, who doesn’t, whose land gets taken, who’s going to end up with a HSR line by their house… The NIMBY problem *should* be less than California, since I believe they’re planning to follow the freeway most of the way, but we’ll see.

    Brian_FL Reply:

    From the Federal Register notice, it appears that TCR is considering a route along existing rail line or electric utility lines as well as highway ROW. Maybe they are waiting for the EIS comment period to commence before they put out a map of possible alternative routes.

    Not sure if you know about NIMBYS here in Florida making noise about AAF. No matter if private or public, any new passenger rail proposal will attract a lot of NIMBYS! Maybe because it is a “threat” to the way our society has done things for several generations? I don’t know the answer. Here in Florida, it appears the NIMBYS don’t want to compromise. And they are against a proposed system using an existing freight railroad ROW! It is an all or nothing fight they are waging.

    Lewellan Reply:

    California too is in an “All or Nothing” fight. The NE Corridor “All or Nothing” bill is over $100 billion. Wisconsin’s GOP-rejected Talgo trainsets are now running daily on Amtrak Cascades. Averaging barely 45mph, they serve an ‘actual’ market instead of a ‘pretend’ market.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    so now the people in the Northeast aren’t real?

    In fiscal year 2013 Amtrak had 936,297 boardings and alightings in Oregon. And 1,281,739 in Washington State. For a grand total of 2,218,036.
    There were 4,125,503 boardings and alighting at Philadelphia’s 30th Street Station. 1,065,576 in Baltimore. Well Baltimore’s numbers are kinda low because people in suburban Baltimore can go to BWI. Where there were 710,513. More people get on and off the train in suburban Baltimore than get on and off the train in Portland which had 652.455 boarding and alightings in FY ’13. More people get on and off the train in Wilmington Delaware. 578,731 of them in Lancaster PA. Lancaster
    Shall I go on?

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Don’t forget Boston, NY, DC, and Philadelphia are all larger than Seattle or Portland. If I recall correctly, NY’s ridership is around 8 million, with Philly at 4 and DC at 4. Either way, NY and DC metro population is larger than Philly. In other words, the City of Brotherly Love has probably the highest Amtrak ridership per capita.

    What are the chance some of it has to do with Amtrak being run out of 30th Street station?

    Lewellan Reply:

    I won’t forget the definitively higher demand of the NEC if you ‘others’ won’t haughtily dismiss the actual accomplishment that TALGO has achieved in the Pacific Northwest. I loved my visit to Philadelphia. I’m actually rather uncertain that NEC actually needs 200mph Bullet trains.
    Zippo Zip trains, so fast, wheeew!

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    It needs 200 mph trains so that all the people who fly from one Northeastern city to another will take the train instead. Along with many of the people who drive from one Northeastern city to another.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    An upgrade to 110mph corridors would indeed be an improvement for the Pacific Northwest, and would increase the mode share of the Cascade Corridor.

    But the NEC already has more than the mode share of the Cascade Corridor, and already has transit speeds roughly equivalent to an 110mph corridor, so upgrading the NEC to an appropriate transit speed for a 150mph trains while increasing capacity would increase the NEC’s mode share, and upgrading the NEC to an appropriate transit speed for 180mph-220mph trains while increasing capacity to suit would increase the NEC’s mode share yet again.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Almost none. People who can get on the subway to get to or from Union Station or Penn Station can use the subway to get to and from 30th Street.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    No, I meant if Amtrak counts its own employees in passenger counts. Or maybe there is just more pride in train travel locally and so they have a higher share.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Amtrak’s headquarters is in Washington DC.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Yes, but the back office and the majority of the workers are based in Philadelphia. Many federal agencies are like that.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Just like the car cleaner in Ivy City or Sunnyside or the ticket agent in Trenton or Baltimore doesn’t need to travel much on business the bookkeepers and power dispatchers in Philadelphia don’t need to travel much on business. Amtrak reports how many residents of each state work for Amtrak. There aren’t a lot of them.

    http://www.amtrak.com/pdf/factsheets/CALIFORNIA13.pdf

    Change the state name, using uppercase letters or DC for Washington DC if you are interested in how many thousands of them live along the NEC.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Well you are still sidestepping my question…why does Philadelphia have better ridership per capita than NY and DC? Is it because there are still NY-DC flights that are cheaper than the Northeast Regional? Or maybe Amtrak’s access to BWI and EWR helps funnel connecting passengers who either fly Southwest or exotic international routes.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Philadelphia’s a second-tier city. NY is a first-tier city. People in first-tier cities don’t visit second-tier cities as often as people in second-tier cities visit first-tier cities, so there’s a fundamental asymmetry; you expect cities like Philadelphia to have higher per-capita ridership than cities like NY.

    The biggest wins in per-capita ridership come from connecting the second-tier cities to the first-tier cities. Bringing this back to California, the killer app for high-speed trains in California isn’t LA to SF, it’s LA to Bakersfield/Fresno/etc. and SF to Bakersfield/Fresno/etc.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    First, Philadelphia doesn’t have higher ridership per capita than DC. The Greater Philadelphia Amtrak stations (mainly Philadelphia, Wilmginton, and Paoli) have a total of about 5 million annual boardings + alightings, while the Greater Washington stations (DC, Baltimore, BWI, New Carrollton, Alexandria, Fredericksburg) have 7 million. Normalized to combined statistical area population, Philadelphia is actually slightly behind Baltimore-Washington, with 0.7 riders vs. 0.75 in DC.

    Now, New York does have lower per capita ridership – only about 0.5 annual riders per capita. But Nathanael’s explanation for that is more than enough: Amtrak connects Philly and DC to New York, whereas New York it only connects to Philly, DC, and Boston, generating lower per capita ridership. In the simplest case, a line that connects two cities and has no intermediate stops, by definition the ridership in both cities will be the same, so the larger one will have lower per capita ridership.

    (Boston has the same per capita ridership as New York, 0.5; this is because NEC-north has worse service than NEC-south.)

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    killer app for high-speed trains in California isn’t LA to SF, it’s LA to Bakersfield/Fresno/etc. and SF to Bakersfield/Fresno/etc.

    Fascinating, not to mention globally special theory, there.

    Similarly, Uber’s Killer App is worth $17 billion. Because, California.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Alon, you can’t lump in Baltimore with DC and compare to Phily or DC because many people take the train between Baltimore and DC and get counterintelligence totals. Not there’s an easy to subtract these riders out, but I would be fairly certain doing so would put Phily back on top.

    Another element I forgot: the Keystone Service might be pushing up The City of Brotherly Love’s numbers….

    Alon Levy Reply:

    I lumped in Paoli with Philly already, as I did Alexandria and Fredericksburg with DC.

    If you don’t do this lumping, then Philly has 4.1 million annual riders and DC 5 million. But then you need to look at metropolitan statistical areas or even metropolitan divisions rather than combined statistical areas. The Philly MSA has the same population as the DC MSA. The Philly MSA also contains Wilmington and its 750,000 riders (and again, Paoli), but then the DC MSA also contains New Carrollton, Alexandria, and Fredericksburg.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Philadelphians with cars, especially the ones in the northern suburbs can drive to Trenton or Hamilton to get to New York. If you live in New Carrollton driving that far gets you to BWI or Baltimore.

    jonathan Reply:

    Huh?

    for the state of California, people in California are real. For the state of California, when it comes to transport, people traveling in California are real. At least when it comes to CA cost/benefit analyses.

    But if you’re only responding to Lewellan… your time is yours, to waste as you see fit ;).

    EJ Reply:

    Well, they’re real, in the limited sense that any line that doesn’t operate TALGO equipment can be real.

    Alan Reply:

    Wisconsin’s GOP-rejected Talgo trainsets are now running daily on Amtrak Cascades.

    No they aren’t. The Wisconsin sets were either purchased or leased by the state of Michigan for Chicago-Michigan service, until the new bilevels which were recently ordered entered service. The Talgos in Cascades service were bult specifically for that service, and AFAIK weren’t part of someone else’s rejected order. IIRC, the Oregon-Washington order was the only order from the Talgo Milwaukee plant which was actually accepted by the original buyer.

    BTW, if you’re shilling Talgos for HSR service, “averaging barely 45mph” is nothing to brag about.

    Lewellan Reply:

    Oh no. NO….. Two Wisconsin-built Talgo trainsets and unmotorized cabs are indeed ACTUALLY operating in the Pacific Northwest AMTRAK CASCADES corridor. Get back jack.

    Peter Reply:

    Those were ordered by Oregon, not Wisconsin. The ones built for Wisconsin are NOT operating anywhere right now.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Last thing I can find is that they were sent to Amtrak’s Beech Grove facility until a buyer is found.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2014/05/29/talgo-trains-roll-out-of-milwaukee-ending-the.html

    joe Reply:

    “Michigan’s DOT is considering a purchase of the trains for its transit fleet.”

    And of course this was at great expense to the WI taxpayer:

    “Current Governor Scott Walker killed the project and gave back $810 million for the Milwaukee-Madison stretch. Wisconsin taxpayers shelled out $52 million for the Talgo trains, before the state ended the payments.

    The project would have created hundreds of construction jobs, and backers maintained it would have boosted the region’s economy.

    and Talgo is considering a lawsuit.

    On Monday, the Claims Board released its 4-0 decision, which said the board “concludes this claim would be best resolved in a court of law.”

    Talgo’s attorney, Lester Pines, said the board’s decision to reject the claim was expected.

    “Talgo is now considering what precisely it wants to do, and we’ll make that decision in the not-too-distant future,” Pines said.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    See, when the statement is “The Talgos in Cascades service were built specifically for that service”, its inappropriate to use the response “Oh no. NO…..” when what comes next is:

    “Two Wisconsin-built Talgo trainsets and unmotorized cabs are indeed ACTUALLY operating in the Pacific Northwest AMTRAK CASCADES corridor.”

    … which are exactly the Talgos that Alan was identifying as “built specifically for that service”.

    The “Oh no. NO….” is used when the following fact CONTRADICTS the comment you are responding to. When the fact you set out AGREES WITH the comment you are responding to, then it makes it look as if you do not understand the significance of the facts you have at hand.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Don’t confuse him with facts.

    Alan Reply:

    Indeed…

    Alan Reply:

    Shut up, jerk. You’re wrong, as others have pointed out.

    Lewellan Reply:

    Bragging rights. Talgo has them. Get used to it.

    jonathan Reply:

    If you need to change from Iberian gauge to standard gauge, Talgo has bragging rights.

    And that’s where the bragging rights end.

    EJ Reply:

    Trolling, Trolling, Trolling… Trolling about Talgo!

    Woody Reply:

    Confusion here. There are four Wisconsin Talgo train sets.

    Two Talgo trainsets were ordered for the Milwaukee-Madison
    110-mph line that Scott Walker killed. Oregon grabbed those
    two, using money when a highway project came in under budget.
    ( ! ! ! ) One train set is working the Willamette Valley route and
    the other is replacing a train set taken out for overhaul.

    Two Talgo train sets were ordered for the Hiawatha route
    Chicago-Milwaukee. I guess Scott Walker killed that too.
    Anyway, Talgo didn’t get paid for them and didn’t release them.
    Recently they were moved out of Wisconsin to Beech Grove.

    Apparently Talgo got Michigan DOT interested, and the state
    issued a RFP to obtain a pair of trains that would meet certain
    conditions, such that the Talgo train would seem to meet.

    Now there’s a period of analyzing the Talgo offer to be sure
    it will deliver what Michigan wants and needs. One thing
    Michigan wants is to get the Talgos in service by September.

    There’s an election in November. The incumbent governor
    Rick Snyder, Republican, may want to have something to
    show the voters for the hundreds of millions of (almost all
    federal funds but some state) dollars invested in improving
    the Wolverines route Chicago-Detroit, and countless hours
    of delays to the existing service. The Talgos can do that.

    Joe Reply:

    Walker killed Hiawatha upgrades when he rejected the entire ARRA rail funding award. Soon after Walker petitioned for funds for Hiawatha and this request was turned down.

    Joe Reply:

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/842481

    Peter Baldo Reply:

    Is it the government that prepares the EIS for the railroad, or the other way around? In California, I think the railroad is doing the work and bearing the expense and taking the flak. The article gives the impression that in Texas, the state and federal governments will do the work and bear the expense and take the flak.

  5. Keith Saggers
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 10:58
    #5

    http://www.fresnobee.com/high-speed-rail/k

    Keith Saggers Reply:

    woops,
    http://www.fresnobee.com/high-speed-rail/

  6. jimsf
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 11:35
    #6

    Ill be looking for these billboards on 99 on my next trip down to visalia. This is great.
    Next, they need to push better messaging too. There should be less focus on the environmental side of the project because that is always divisive. But what all californians can get behind is the convenient travel aspect

    Sell it purely as a complete transportation system that puts 30 million californian within 3 hours of each other door to door. That is what people will get behind.

    Observer Reply:

    Correct. The environmental benefits have been shouted out and are well known. But being that people and their cars are joined at the hip, people need to realize – they need to be told that HSR would be a much easier way to get between major metropolitan areas, not to mention the benefits that metropolitan areas would realize.

    Donk Reply:

    Seriously. The only relevant point of the 3 is Opportunity. They should have also had a point about Convenience/Comfort, like jimsf mentioned. Supporting HSR because it will bring jobs is shortsighted, but is a good marketing strategy for the Central Valley. The environmental impact is debatable, but over the long term will be there. At least they aren’t claiming that it will reduce traffic.

    MarkB Reply:

    For a highway billboard to be a success, it has to be seen, read and comprehended in about one or two seconds. I fear this one fails. There’s no pyramid of importance for the eyes to follow; the text is a mess of white against sepia, dark blue against sea foam green, and white against dark blue. UPPER CASE TEXT IS LESS LEGIBLE THAN lower case. The entire billboard is filled edge-to-edge and with contrasting color palettes — there’s no white space. Very amateurish.

    Eric Reply:

    Agreed

    Jerry Reply:

    Also, in advertising, the word “new” should be in there.
    The word “fast” would help also.

    Jerry Reply:

    The billboards, ‘learn more’ reference connects to a Facebook page with the billboard reversed.

    EJ Reply:

    The word “bacon” should be in there. People like bacon.

    jimsf Reply:

    I would do a clean solid background, with a high speed trainset across the bottom.
    ( and not this ugly blue and yellow that is so tainted now)
    Then in bold travel time.

    “Fresno to Los Angeles 90 minutes”

    And do a series of these which advertise travel times and on board comforts in simple terms

    Simple Clean Fast Comfortable Convenient etc.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Clem is going to point out all that would work if the destination wasn’t Fresno or Bakersfield. Maybe add Merced to IOS North and call it Yosemite Station?

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Fresno to LA in 90 minutes is going to work in Fresno, Tulare & King counties.

    As Merced is the planned northern terminus of the IOS, “adding it” to the IOS would seem to be straightforward.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Yes but the moneyed elite of Fresno probably would prefer the investment and connection to the Bay Area over Los Angeles which promises little foreign investment.

    Ted Judah Reply:

    Sorry “little direct investment”…Freudian slip there.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Well, I think there are places where focusing on the environmental benefits would be uncontroversial. But in the Oil Drilling Central Valley, yeah, not the best focus.

  7. Lewellan
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 12:28
    #7

    The last I heard, the mandate was reduced from 200+mph to 165mph, and the locomotive type resembling a freight train more than an aerodynamic bullet. Sorry I don’t have a link to reference.
    Correct me if I’m wrong with a link.

    Eric M Reply:

    Wow, you just make that up? No, you need to prove your point with a citation because that is utter BS.

    Lewellan Reply:

    I’m sorry about that. In my website newspaper article readings, the freight-style 165mph locomotive was ‘depicted’ as the new reality of blended system. Perhaps it was Caltrans? Probably, but will Caltrans do 165mph? I doubt it, therefore, it’s HSR. Clem reminds of ‘compatability’ often for the Peninsula and right about ‘compatability’ coming before locomotive type. I am a little mixed up about this, but frankly, I can explain my position more respectably than your idiot explanations of legal wrangling.

    I watched the Talgo arrive in town tonight, quiet cab forward. Amazing. Slow.
    My nickname for the Wisconsin design is “Toots” (short for Tootsie not ‘Little Toots’ – already taken nickname). Just humor me this time. Thanks. Find that 165mph link. I swear I saw it on some newspaper website, therefore credible I must assume. Also: You guys are so stupid. Fuhgetaboutid.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    This one perhaps ?
    http://www.interstatetraveler.us/

    Eric M Reply:

    Huh???? Would you please provide a coherent response. Heavy freight is not going to go 165 mph, with maybe the exception of a postal train like the SNCF TGV La Poste.

    Clem talks about compatibility, but the maximum speed on the peninsula without grade separations can only be 125 mph. And heavy style, US freight will most likely be restricted to only a few hours in the middle of the night.

    Also, would you please stop referencing Talgo, unless you are refering to The Talgo 250. The CA HSR system will be designed for ~250 mph, with operating speeds at ~220 mph, using transets such as Alstom’s AGV, Siemen’s Velaro, or the upcoming Bombardier ZEFIRO.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Mail is isn’t very heavy.

    Eric M Reply:

    That’s what I meant. I worded it wrong. Should have said: “Heavy freight is not going to go 165 mph. Maybe a just postal train like the SNCF TGV La Poste, which carries light freight, will run on the system.”

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Heavy freight is not often going to be going faster than 60mph.

    Indeed, they are currently doing research on higher speed trucks for medium freight (eg, single stack containers) to go regularly at 90mph.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Does heavy freight ever go 60 mph? In Europe, every time there’s a nontrivial grade, the minimum speed for freight trains raises operating costs and limits train weights, to a far lower maximum than what’s routine in the US. The trains that are allowed to go 100 km/h are still much lighter than American coal trains.

    Keith Saggers Reply:

    Also in the running:

    The first Shinkansen trains, the 0 Series Shinkansen, built by Kawasaki Heavy Industries—in English often called “Bullet Trains”, after the original Japanese name Dangan Ressha (弾丸列車?)—outclassed the earlier fast trains in commercial service. They ran the 515 km (320 mi) distance in 3 hours 10 minutes, reaching a top speed of 210 km/h (130 mph) and sustaining an average speed of 162.8 km/h (101.2 mph) with stops at Nagoya and Kyoto.

    But the speed was only a part of the Shinkansen revolution: the Shinkansen offered high-speed rail travel to the masses. The first Bullet trains had 12 cars and later versions had up to 16, and double-deck trains further increased the capacity.

    After three years, more than 100 million passengers had used the trains, and the milestone of the first one billion passengers was reached in 1976. In 1972, the line was extended a further 161 km (100 mi), and further construction has resulted in the network expanding to 2,387 km (1,483 mi) as at March 2013, with a further 776 km (482 mi) of extensions currently under construction and due to open in stages between March 2015 and 2035. The cumulative patronage on the entire system since 1964 is over 10 billion, the equivalent of approximately 150% of the world’s population, without a single train passenger fatality. (Suicides, passengers falling off the platforms, and construction errors have resulted in fatalities.)

    Since their introduction, Japan’s Shinkansen systems have been under relentless development, not only increasing line speeds. Dozens of models have been produced, addressing diverse issues such as tunnel boom noise, vibration, aerodynamic drag, lines with lower throughput (“Mini shinkansen”), earthquake and typhoon safety, braking distance, problems due to snow, and energy consumption (newer models consume half the initial ones despite greater speeds)…

    Wikipedia

    Keith Saggers Reply:

    Extensive trials using the Fastech 360 test trains have shown that operation at 360 km/h (224 mph) is not currently feasible because of problems of noise pollution (particularly tunnel boom), overhead wire wear, and braking distances. On 30 October 2012, JR East announced that it is pursuing research and development to increase speeds to 360 km/h on the Tohoku Shinkansen by 2020.

    Wikipedia

    EJ Reply:

    Talgo makes a 220 mph capable train, the 350. It’s widely used in Spain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVE_Class_102

    Apparently the Saudis are going to use it on their new HSR line as well.

    Peter Reply:

    It doesn’t go 350 km/h. It was designed for 330 km/h. The name is misleading.

    J. Wong Reply:

    “Blended” I don’t think that word means what you think it means.

    “Blended” means that HSR would share tracks with commuter rail running (at least on the Peninsula) with electric motors _not_ with diesel.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    “I swear I saw it on some newspaper website, therefore credible I must assume. Also: You guys are so stupid.”

    You take on faith what you read in “some newspaper website” (without even bookmarking the site to be able to double check later) and feel free to call OTHER people stupid?

    Alan Reply:

    I read on World Net Daily’s website that the President is a Kenya-born socialist Marxist who is going to send Nancy Pelosi to Mars with a ray gun to rule that planet. So it must be true.

    Sheesh.

    EJ Reply:

    Hi guys, here’s something I have no references or support for. Please provide a reference to prove me wrong.

    You’re truly an exceptional human being.

    Alan Reply:

    You pull something out of your ass and then expect us to disprove it? Go back to writing your Vogon poetry.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    You’re wrong. Link: http://www.hsr.ca.gov/about/business_plans/draft_2014_business_plan.html

  8. synonymouse
    Jun 26th, 2014 at 15:52
    #8

    You’d think Prop 1a is back on the ballot the way the Cheerleaders are so defensive. But neither is Jerry’s LA Water Grab nor LAHSR. He lacks the nerve to pimp Norcal water to Palmdale- but let’s if he has the hubris to shunt the next contract to Tutor. Kinda doubt it but then he is senile.

    Alan Reply:

    There’s nothing defensive about maintaining a positive public image, especially before real construction efforts become visible.

    Lewellan Reply:

    Ha Ha. So impressive. “Construction efforts” becoming “visable.” Whee!

    Lewellan Reply:

    Saw a great Palmdale movie this week: “The Land of the Lost”
    Wil Ferrel. Nuf said. Couldn’t not laugh.
    Final word: Blended System cost reduction applicable Central Valley.
    If Peninsula/LA County didn’t offer Blended, this discussion wouldn’t be happening.
    Fuhgetaboudit.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    How much cheaper would it be to compared to the one you’d like to see built, up and down the Central Valley?

    Lewellan Reply:

    Answer: a lot ‘cheaper’ though the term ‘less expensive’ can depict how cost savings often produces higher value. Investing money is not the objective, as you should know.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    It’s not much cheaper. Laying railroad tracks in flat places for conventional rail isn’t that much less expensive than laying tracks for high speed rail.

    jonathan Reply:

    You’re saying the Peninsula “offered” a “Blended System”?

    So much for words having meaning….

    Alan Reply:

    Not to mention the double negative: “Couldn’t not laugh”. There was a day when a kid would have flunked 7th grade English writing something like that.

    Lewellan Reply:

    “Couldn’t not laugh” can be considered creative writing, Alan. The most said in least words. And jonathan, the Bay Area Peninsula communities ‘offered’ as an alternative, the blended system that has kept this HSR project going, no thanks to people like you, corporate bandwagon flunkies.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Central Valley is where total dollar cost reduction per mile is the least, and the reduction in effective transit speed the greatest.

    The best Will Ferrell movies are funny on several levels, which allows people to enjoy them for the slapstick even if they aren’t quick enough to catch the satire.

  9. Eric M
    Jun 27th, 2014 at 13:55
    #9

    Federal Railroad Administration Issues Record of Decision for California High-Speed Train Fresno to Bakersfield Section

    J. Wong Reply:

    “clears the way to break ground on the project”

    Yay!

    jimsf Reply:

    the FRA selects the preferred alternative outlined in its Final Environmental Impact Statement (FEIS), which was issued earlier this year. The preferred alternative is comprised of the alignment alternative adjacent to the BNSF Railway bypasses of Corcoran, the Allensworth area, and the Bakersfield Hybrid alternative. The preferred alternative includes a Downtown Fresno Station, a Kings/Tulare regional station, and a downtown Bakersfield station. FRA selected this combination of route alignments because they are more compatible with the long-range development planning goals of the region, and will result in fewer potential impacts on wetlands and special-status species habitat

    have to go back and look at the maps. this is bypass corcoran and bypass wasco I assume

  10. John Burrows
    Jun 27th, 2014 at 16:55
    #10

    My entry into the Central Valley Billboard Sweepstakes—-

    In the Fresno area:
    The left side of the billboard would show a rendering of how Fresno might look in 2035 based on their Downtown Specific Plan. In the center would be the train, and above the train “59 minutes” would be written. On the right hand side would be a rendering of how San Jose might appear in 2035 based upon the Diridon Station Area plan.

    In the Bakersfield area there would be a different sign highlighting the link that high speed rail would establish between Bakersfield and Los Angeles.

    Getting back to Fresno—Their Downtown Vision calls for 7,000 residential units on 7,200 acres in the area around the HSR station. San Jose’s Diridon Plan calls for nearly 5 million square feet of office/R&D/industrial space as well as a substantial amount of residential and retail in a much smaller (250 acre) area. In other words anyone living in one of these 7,000 units in Fresno could walk or drive to the train station in 15 minutes, make the 59 minute trip to Diridon, and walk to their place of business in another 15 minutes—For a total trip time of 1.5 hr or less.

    Santa Clara County has the second highest rate of “mega commuters” in the country, with about 17,000 commuters taking 1.5 hr or longer to get to work each day. The median cost of a place to live in the Bay area is the highest in the country—the median cost of a place to live in Fresno is several times less, in fact it is lower than in cities such as Austin and Dallas. If the cost to rent or buy in Santa Clara County keeps going up, more potential employees will be priced out of the Bay Area, and if they had the option a fair number might end up working in Silicon Valley and living in Fresno instead of relocating to Texas or some other place.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Or they just open an office in Fresno.

    jimsf Reply:

    either way people in fresno benefit though

    jimsf Reply:

    The beuaty of high speed rail is that it makes where you live, work,play, or locate your company, less critical as it brings everyone to within a short travel time of everyone else. With the cost of doing business being lower in the valley a lot of companies could move out there knowing that they could get employees either from the bay area, or, get employees to move to the valley knwoing they will have easy access to the bay ( and la) That happened in the greater sacramento area. Places such as Rancho Cordova and Folsom courted lots of big companies including Intel and other tech related companies and it has transformed and brought a lot wealth. PArts of Folsom look like the OC/newport beach area now.

  11. Donk
    Jun 27th, 2014 at 20:53
    #11

    I did a “ctrl-F” for the word “Talgo” and found 24 matches on this page. You guys are a bunch of nerds.

    Donk Reply:

    We are now up to 36. I think this is going to be a record.

    Observer Reply:

    And you probably not doing the manufacturer any favors either. If they are reading all of this, they likely would have a headache by now.

  12. Donk
    Jun 27th, 2014 at 20:55
    #12

    OT: BUR Regional Intermodal Transportation Center opened today. More convenient passenger connection between Metrolink/Amtrak and BUR. Now all they need is better service outside of rush hour.

    http://thesource.metro.net/2014/06/27/bob-hope-airport-officially-opens-regional-intermodal-transportation-center/

    Clem Reply:

    Not so OT. This new facility is why all other HSR San Fernando Valley station options were recently withdrawn. This is the future HSR stop.

    Eric M Reply:

    Isn’t this on the wrong rail line to be a HSR stop? I thought the tracks are planned for running down San Fernando Rd./Blvd.

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