Reject False Choices To Improve California’s Transportation System
We’re seeing a new anti-high speed rail argument unfold in California, and it needs to be smacked down hard. An editorial in the Santa Cruz Sentinel argues that the state’s road maintenance backlog cannot be addressed at the same time as we build new transportation systems like high speed rail. Rather than maintaining what we have while also relieving the wear and tear on roads by developing alternatives, the Sentinel thinks we can only do one or the other, so we should just pour money into road maintenance alone.
According to the CTC report, the state will need to come up with an additional $300 billion over the next decade to maintain and expand current infrastructure. The CTC warns that to meet this challenge there needs to be a “large increase in capital investments by all levels of government, as well as resources from the private sector.”
The report writers go on to say that it would take the state many years to recover from a failure to invest in a transportation system “that is safe and reliable, and which moves people and goods efficiently.”
Based on this, you’d think they would acknowledge high speed rail has to be a part of that solution. It is among the safest, most reliable, most efficient method of moving people in the 21st century that can be imagined. The Sentinel editorial never acknowledges the high cost of gas – they must assume gas is either already cheap or will become cheap again – so they have not factored into their analysis the cost of actually using the transportation system.
But the Sentinel concludes that HSR somehow shouldn’t be in the mix:
First, would be to put the bullet train back in the holster. While the idea remains enticing, the project simply isn’t affordable at a time when the state can’t pay its bills, maintain vital services or fix existing roads.
This is just nonsense. California can afford to do all of these things. It is a rich state. The problem is that the legislature has been prevented, until now, from getting the money it needs to maintain vital services and fix existing roads. (Note that California has been able to pay its bills, has not resorted to IOUs for a while, and is at no risk whatsoever of defaulting on its debt.) The money exists to do all of these things.
More importantly, HSR helps maintain existing roads. It’s a simple point – the more heavily a road is used, the more it deteriorates. In order to afford to maintain roads, it makes sense to provide people alternatives so that the roads get less heavy usage. That extends the life of existing pavement and cuts down on the costs of repavement, reconstruction, and of course makes widening to be unnecessary.
Those are issues Santa Cruz is quite familiar with, as the editorial makes clear:
If you’ve driven around Santa Cruz County, of course, you know this far too well. A survey by an Oakland engineering firm rated the county’s 600 miles of roads at 49 out of a possible 100. In the region, only Monterey and Sonoma counties were rated worse. The county’s 100 miles of rural roads rated a dismal 23.
Meanwhile, traffic congestion on the county’s only coastal freeway, Highway 1, has been awful for more than a decade. At least the Santa Cruz County Regional Transportation Agency has been diligent in leveraging state and federal funds to make vital improvements to the highway. Still, overall widening remains a divisive political issue in a county where people drive a lot but don’t seem to support roadway improvements.
I’m quite familiar with Highway 1 through Santa Cruz County. It is traffic-choked during commute hours because there is only a narrow corridor of both settlement and possible transportation infrastructure. And there is a parallel railroad that the county now owns, which would serve all the key population centers of the county from Santa Cruz to Watsonville. Passenger rail could carry more than enough passengers to help relieve traffic on Highway 1.
In fact, the lack of rail is one of the reasons for the gridlock on Highway 1. As Silicon Valley grew, Santa Cruz became a bedroom community for Santa Clara County. But instead of providing rail to move people back and forth, Santa Cruz County officials actually blocked rail. One of the people who led that fight was Gary Patton, now with the Planning and Conservation League and a leader in opposing high speed rail. Patton bragged about killing rail from San José to Santa Cruz in 2009. Patton’s motive was to reduce pressure on growth in Santa Cruz, satisfying NIMBYs there.
But what happened was that the growth came anyway, and it came in Watsonville. Excellent farmland was converted to subdivisions and people had to commute on Highway 1, choking the route with traffic. Patton’s stance destroyed farmland and led to gridlock. His policies have been an utter disaster for Santa Cruz County, yet he brags about it and wants the rest of California to suffer the same fate of gridlock and sprawl.
In short, rail helps reduce gridlock and maintenance needs on roads. It is strange at best to conclude that rail should not be part of the answer.
One can look to Europe for an answer. Europe has well-maintained roads in part because it has good rail systems. High speed trains cover their own operating costs, of course, but freeways don’t. Europe has high gas taxes, and the Sentinel suggests California’s gas taxes be raised. That would help, but it’s rail that carries much of the load.
The Sentinel editorial is locked in a 20th century mindset, driven by a tenacious refusal to admit the need to change. They want to believe it’s possible to continue on as before – widen freeways, sink billions into maintenance, pay for it with gas taxes, without trains. The present economic crisis as well as Santa Cruz County’s transportation crisis, is in part a produce of that 20th century path.
The 21st century requires a different approach. Maintain the roads we have and make that easier and more affordable by building rail to give people another option. It’s the obvious and logical solution, resisted only by those whose ideological opposition to rail trumps common sense.
Santa Cruz County will have to turn to passenger rail to solve its transportation problems. So too will California. That includes local rail in places like Santa Cruz, and it includes statewide intercity rail like high speed rail.

Germany, for example, also has a VERY high sales tax, actually a VAT, of a WHOPPING 19%. Their economy hasn’t collapsed after a long string of tax hikes (I remember when it was 13% there), why would anyone expect ours to collapse?
Eric M Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 7:35 pm
And the tax on gas is high also. But their roads are so nice to drive on, especially when most people know how to drive, unlike here. They believe in being proactive instead of reactive with regards to maintenance. I agree with you, they have a very strong economy, even with higher taxes. Everyone here in the US wants something for nothing.
Sarcastically….
The $9.9 billion for CHSRA might be better spent on population control. If population were kept in check, no more need to spend on highway or airport expansion. No more parking structures. No more traffic calming.
I’ve already started… voluntarily. I am not having any children that would later add to the State’s traffic problem. I will stay at home on weekends. And, I will do my shopping via Amazon.com.
Yes, I barrowed someone else’s thought.
More seriously… HSR is more about providing capacity. It provides an alternative to expected congested highways and airport terminals. People are moving to California and creating and expanding demand on the State’s transportation infrastucture. Doing nothing will not make expected ‘demand’ go away. However, creating a cheaper and more effective alternative is a win win for California citizens – less $ out of our pocketbooks and healthier on out lungs.
Maxi Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
How high is the state’s Total Fertility Rate? Still just hoovering around replacement I think. I think population control is more of an immigration issue. But I still do believe in family planning services for low income and high fertility groups. Regardless, I would put stricter controls on our outside borders(because let’s face it, we have an outflow in interstate migration) before denying native Californians the right of a family. The last thing we need is our smart and educated, much like you, to stop having kids completely.
BMF from San Diego Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Well, yes it is… immigration provides the net gain. Regardless, the state grows by 300k to 400k per year. Neither is an issue… population gain a naturally occuring phenomenon.
StevieB Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
California population increases by about 500,000 more births than deaths a year. The California Department of Finance states that from less than 34 million Californians counted in the 2000 census, the new data series shows that the state will pass the 40 million mark in 2012, and exceed 50 million by 2032. California’s population is projected to reach almost 60 million people by 2050. Far from neutral the growth of California population requires more transportation than road widening alone can provide.
Elizabeth Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
The latest numbers actually show much reduced growth. There are more births (largely driven by very high hispanic birth rate) than deaths currently (+/- 300k). Since 2005, there has actually been an offsetting loss of population due to out migration. Net growth has managed to stay above 200k but who knows going forward. Population growth forecasts have always been very political in California.
joe Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 7:12 pm
Asserting the growth in population will not increase is a very radical political position. Here’s the observed data and I used high growth state like Idaho and legacy state like MI and our rival TX.
http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=population&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=state&idim=state:06000:48000:26000:16000&ifdim=state&tstart=332319600000&tend=1247468400000&hl=en&dl=en&uniSize=0.035&icfg&iconSize=0.5
Anyone think the growth in CA population is political? How many think the State NOT growing is a political comment – another perspective disfavoring HSR.
Risenmessiah Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 5:45 am
One of the more curious nuggets within the 2010 Census results was that Hispanic births increased the population nationwide except for Los Angeles County. That’s telling for a couple of reasons. The 2010 Census revealed that the Latino population of the country is now primarily from births, not immigration. And, the Los Angeles County has the largest population of Hispanics nationwide.
It’s very possible that California will peak at around 40 million people.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:42 am
If CA’s population peaks at 40M, that implies population and the derivative, growth, increases elsewhere.
Where?
adirondacker12800 Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Detroit is trying that route, less population, it’s not pretty.
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 9:17 pm
7+ billion humans is about most “not pretty” thing the world has seen since the last major asteroid impact.
Beta Magellan Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 6:12 pm
I’d use that $9.9 billion to bribe the people who control zoning in California’s major metropolitan areas to allow for higher-density housing. More people are fine—just put them in places where you’ve already invested in the infrastructure.
Not sarcastically.
joe Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 8:44 pm
I agree with changing zoning – maybe the bribe thing is a bit extreme.
In particular I’d eliminate mandated parking requirements for residential development and business which make our cities unwalkable. If a development is within X meters of a main/frequent public transit line, I’d waive the parking requirements.
As a plus, CA is only one of four states that allows in-law units of 600 sq ft or less (aka Accessory Dwelling Unit). Santa Cruz has pre-approved designs for residential use. http://www.cityofsantacruz.com/index.aspx?page=1150
adirondacker12800 Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
and the granny flat imust have a parking space….. for granny who doesn’t drive any more….
Andre Peretti Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 5:37 am
In France, only one parking space per apartment is mandatory. This allows grannies to supplement their old-age pension by renting out the space they have no use for.
schrodinger Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
I know that everybody thinks of California as a dynamic growing state. But from 2002 to 2011, California lost jobs.
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LASST06000003
California cannot grow when jobs are fleeing the state. I think that the predictions for rising population are wrong.
joe Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Jobs are being destroyed, not fleeing. You forget to account for the massive recession with high unemployment. It’s bad everywhere.
schrodinger Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 7:44 pm
>”It’s bad everywhere”
Actually it isn’t. The chart on the page I’m linking to shows shows where jobs were added or lost over the last economic cycle. Most states added at least some jobs since 2002. California is one of a small group that didn’t.
http://schrodingerblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/california-versus-texas-why-some-states.html
Where California has gone wrong is that our cost of living has become too high due to high housing prices. This drives people out of the state and keeps labor costs high. Also, our educational level is not as good as some of our competitors on the East Coast.
joe Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Oh please. Jobs are not fleeing CA.
First CA’s high cost of living in CA depends on the location. It’s a big state and pretty affordable in many places – live those where the HSR will run in the CV.
One could move to affordable MT where I lived. The cost is lower but the incomes are lower which makes it a low cost of living, low wage state.
Texas rocks.
I moved here to live in CA. If I wanted a low tax hell hole, Texas, I’d live there.
Texas does one thing right, they tax the oil pumped out of the ground. California does not tax oil extraction. So let’s copy Texas and tax oil extraction.
schrodinger Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:28 am
If you look at the data, California is losing jobs despite having a growing population. You might not like it, but that is what the data shows.
Yes, California’s living costs are high. California has the third highest median monthly owner costs for homeowners, trailing only Hawaii and New Jersey. That is a state wide number. The reasonable prices in the CV are outweighed by totally obscene costs in growth limited coastal cities. Those high homeowner costs are high despite Prop 13, which keeps property taxes below levels in Texas.
Let’s talk about Montana. It’s a good thing living costs are cheap there, because they have some of the lowest wages in the country. Lower than Texas. The reason wages are so low there is that it is not a right-to-work state. Employers hate having to deal with unions, and most of the job creation is in right-to-work states, even if wages in those states are higher than Montana.
http://schrodingerblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/california-versus-texas-part-2-power-of.html
You mention taxes and oil. Oil revenue doesn’t have much of an impact in any state outside Alaska. Other things matter more. If you move to Texas looking for low taxes, you are going to be disappointed. They may not have a state income tax, but overall taxation is close to average.
I’ve looked at which states are adding jobs and why, and places like Texas, Florida, Arizona and Nevada are all using pretty much the same formula. They attract employers by being right-to-work states with lowish wages and average levels of college graduates. They attract employees by having low costs of living which offset the lowish wages.
Alon Levy Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 2:07 am
The entire country had a net decline in the employment-to-population ratio last decade – and this is true even if your data series is 2000-7, i.e. pre-recession. Since 2007, the employment rate has freefallen and not recovered. So it’s not surprising that states with average or below-average population growth would’ve lost jobs. This is especially true of California, which because of the housing bubble didn’t do very well last decade. (It’s less true of the secondary Northeastern metro areas – Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, etc. – which without much fanfare posted twice or more the national real per capita income growth. Those places lost jobs because they lost people, but have below-average unemployment.)
StevieB Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 3:06 am
California has a quarter of a million out of work in the construction industry due mainly to the housing bubble. Those jobs did not leave for work in other states.
Alon Levy Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
I’m well aware.
StevieB Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 3:12 am
Prop 13 increases homeowner costs for new buyers over those who have owned homes for years because change of ownership triggers tax reassessment. Prop 13 therefore acts as a barrier to attracting workers to California. Areas such as the Peninsula have kept housing costs high by restricting zoning for high density thereby creating housing scarcity.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:53 am
Prop 13 allows legacy owners and companies to avoid taxers.
It’s not a barrier, it’s a loophole.
StevieB Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Prop 13 gives legacy owners an advantage over any competition who wish to conduct business in the state. In effect it functions as a barrier to new companies who pay higher property taxes thus reducing employment development in California.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:50 am
“Let’s talk about Montana. It’s a good thing living costs are cheap there, because they have some of the lowest wages in the country. Lower than Texas. The reason wages are so low there is that it is not a right-to-work state. Employers hate having to deal with unions, and most of the job creation is in right-to-work states, even if wages in those states are higher than Montana.”
You just told me Montana’s low wages are due to unions. Yet high cost of living states allow unions.
“You mention taxes and oil. Oil revenue doesn’t have much of an impact in any state outside Alaska.”
Again, you need help. Texas funds it’s schools with Oil taxes.
And since Oil isn’t a factor, lets tax the extraction – it’s a none factor so accommodate my silly, unimportant request.
Go back to Townhall. Ask for help.
We’ve been building and maintaining some of the world’s widest freeways for years. Every year they get larger and therefore cost more to maintain.
This isn’t rocket science, folks — the status quo won’t work. We need another solution.
CAHSR doesn’t serve Santa Cruz. Is it any surprise that the Santa Cruz newpaper opposes it? They are just representing their local interest.
JJJ Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
I wonder what the Redding newspaper says. What’s that saying? If a newspaper complains in the forest, but no one is around to read it, did it really complain? For all we know, they run daily rants against HSR.
Let me do a quick google search for their newspaper…
“And a $10 billion bond seemed a foolhardy bet on a whiz-bang future even in 2008, when the state government’s finances had just started crashing along with the real-estate market. Today? The economy has fallen farther and stayed down longer than almost anyone imagined possible three years ago. The budget remains a disaster. Who seriously believes the state can afford this project?”
I’m shocked.
wu ming Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:16 am
mineta airport and FO don’t serve santa cruz either, by that standard, because they’re not located in santa cruz.
wu ming Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:16 am
SFO, that is.
Joey Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 12:36 am
Much more of Santa Cruz depends on airports than will depend on HSR, mainly because there is no alternative (driving) for long-distance flights.
False. “Two University of Toronto professors have added to the body of evidence showing that highway and road expansion increases traffic by increasing demand. On the flip side, they show that transit expansion doesn’t help cure congestion either.” http://dc.streetsblog.org/2011/05/31/study-building-roads-to-cure-congestion-is-an-exercise-in-futility/
adirondacker12800 Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
It cures congestion for the people on the train.
Reality Check Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 11:31 pm
I seem to remember similar (or perhaps the same) general research conclusions. Transit, particularly on dedicated/separate rights of way, gives people alternatives to driving in congestion and has other important benefits that relate to land use and improved mobility for non-drivers, etc., more so than actually reducing or eliminating congestion.
Like with adding lanes, in many areas, when people get off roads and onto trains (or planes or buses), it just generally makes makes room for more vehicle traffic and congestion is probably never reduced much — if at all — for very long.
However, that said, I’ve got to think that if, for example, BART and/or Caltrain were to shut down tomorrow, that there would be significant increase in congestion in certain areas and corridors. Ridership builds relatively slowly over time, allowing the “extra road space” to be absorbed … then a sudden cut-off of what has become a well-patronized service dumps a bunch of extra vehicle trips back onto the still/already-congested road network.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 11:04 pm
Playing a broken record but Caltrain is very important for employers along the route in high cost areas – like PAMPA. It allows them to recruit an doffer living in SF or cheaply elsewhere and train ride to work/shuttle. It keeps cars off their streets – free VTA and Caltrain pass at Stanford. No small perk.
Google and Facebook (soon) offer free buses to work from many destinations like SF. That’s not a forever benefit. Someday their balance sheet will require they stop with the free shit and force their employees into cars/bus and rail. Google uses SGI and Netscape’s old facilities. Facebook uses Sun’s campus (soon). Shit happens. Ask Cisco.
This would be the same HSR system which explicitly is not routing one of the best connections for diverting car travel (Altamont route), won’t be built until 2033, and the biggest car diverting route (LA-SD) won’t be built until some time after that, right? Yeah, it’s not going to do one damn thing about the roads.
Yeah, that’s going to be a blatant lie right there. Freeways don’t cover their capital costs generally, but their operating costs are rather easily taken care of.
Alon Levy Reply:
November 13th, 2011 at 9:39 pm
Only the tollways recover operating costs, and that assumes depreciation is not an operating cost (Texas’s Asset Value Index accounts for depreciation but not interest, if I understand the Keep Texas Moving newsletter correctly).
Andre Peretti Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 5:41 pm
French intercity freeways, built and operated by private consortia, recover both building and operating costs and pay good dividends to their shareholders. The users are the ones getting screwed.
Example for Paris Lyon, conceded to APRR until 2032:
Total distance 288 miles, 250 miles of which tolled. Cost: €31 for a private car. That’s $0.178 a mile.
On their website, freeway operators explain why tolls are socially just. They have calculated that, without tolls, every Frenchman would have to pay €500 in taxes, whether they use freeways or not.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
18 cents a mile is cheap compared to the Delaware Turnpike – almost 36 cents a mile. I haven’t done the calculations since the last round of toll hikes. Median for toll roads in the US is going to be around 5 cents a mile.
Tuesday: Rich Gordon to host Palo Alto hearing on high-speed-rail
Assemblyman to lead discussion of rail authority’s new business plan
Road wear and tear is almost exclusively caused by trucks, cars almost do not count. High speed passenger rail will divert automobile trips, not freight carrying trucks. Therefore, California High Speed Rail will not significantly reduce road maintenance costs in California. It can only potentially reduce new capitol roadway construction costs by reducing the need for roadway widening or new roadway construction.
Robert, Your comments about Santa Cruz are an argument for investing in regional rail projects, not HSR trunk routes. And without regional rail HSR will create more congestion around the stations. Build regional rail first, provide an alternative for most people’s everyday journeys.
PD
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 7:42 pm
Why must CA HSR wait until Santa Cruz Co (and others) decide to build their regional rail system?
HSR will build something statewide and that will motivate regions to build and connect to the statewide network.
Brian Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Joe,
That is exactly what happened in France. Around 17 or 18 of the new streetcar systems (re)build since the 1970s were built in TGV cities AFTER the TGV line was built there.
Downtown TGV stations gave the cities/regions a reason to build local rail and a transportation/economic focal point for the local network.
Why so many people fail to see or acknowledge this, I don’t understand.
Alon Levy Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 9:25 pm
Because it’s utter hogwash to credit this to the TGV. Cities without usable TGV service (Nice, Toulouse) built streetcar systems just as much as cities with good TGV service (Lyon). It’s even less true of metro systems, which were opened in the late 1970s and early 80s; in Lyon it turned out to be more or less simultaneous with the construction of the LGV Sud-Est, but in Lille and Marseille it was long before they were reached by LGVs.
paul dyson Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
Quite so. TGV connected into robust, existing local networks. Other than San Fran these are marginal at best, certainly there is nothing in the SJV cities for HSR to connect to, which is why an initial investment there would be a fiasco.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 10:53 pm
Let’s apply this heuristic to roadways – no more highway repairs until we fix regional roads.
There’s no reason to send ARRA money back to DC so CA can develop rail in the right sequence – first regional and then interregional.
We can do both and the HSR system is an incentive to invest into and use the regional system. And we can run buses/shuttles in the meanwhile to draw ridership. I propose revisiting our bus routes.
My crappy little city, Gilroy, currently and historically used Caltrain as a bus terminal. We call it the Gilroy transit center. Quaint. My son’s Kindergarden class did a field trip there and rode the Bus to the station.
Center is the terminus for regional express VTA 121/168, the VTA 68 and local VTA 14, 17, 18, 19 buses. Monterey’s MST and Greyhound stop at Caltrain’s station – San Benito Co runs a shuttle (or used to ) for Caltrain. Regional public transportation and local service all feed into the proposed HSR station.
So why does early HSR ridership HAVE to be fed by rail based travelers? It’d be nice but why make it a prerequisite?
We need to think of these HSR stations as major hubs for express and local buses and shuttles and taxis and car drop-off/pickup.
Alon Levy Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 12:33 am
I wouldn’t call them robust – Marseille is a sprawlfest, and Lyon’s subway system was nascent at the time the TGV arrived. On ridership, they’re way better than what the US has; even New York can’t match Lyon for rail ridership per capita. But that’s a result of urban form more than connectivity to just the train station. American cities tend to have okay transit for getting to and from the downtown train station at peak hour; it’s just that this is not where most people want to go.
Andre Peretti Reply:
November 15th, 2011 at 4:43 am
One thing that makes city transit efficient in France is that buses, trams and subways are operated by the same companies. They are one system and one ticket is valid for all. When a subway network is created, all surface transit is reorganized, with bus lines acting as subway feeders.
I lived in a Marseille suburb and worked downtown before the subway was built. My daily commute took me more than 1 hour each way, not counting the time spent finding a parking space. That was one of the reasons why I left Marseille.
Out of curiosity, I lately tried the same commute. The combined bus+subway ride took me 20 minutes. The subway really is a life changer.
Marseille also illustrates how essential it is for HSR stations to be well connected to suburban transit. The Marseillais whose suburbs have no efficient transit to the downtown station prefer driving to the Aix-en-Provence greenfield station. That’s why the station has been nicknamed “Marseille-bis”. Most of its annual 4 million riders are from Marseille. Thus, TGV+inefficient transit encourages driving.
joe Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 10:59 pm
And along with the TGV, in the 70′s cities were hurting. Infrastructure was old, investments were needed and cheap gasoline and new highways made suburban life attractive. I expect this was the case in France as the US.
FYI:
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2011/11/bring-them-down.html
Arthur Dent Reply:
November 14th, 2011 at 11:34 pm
“HSR will build something statewide and that will motivate regions to build and connect to the statewide network.”
Not gonna happen. There will be no funding left for regional transit & rail. That sound you hear is all available funds getting sucked down the PB hole.