Legislative Analyst Wants to Give HSR the Scott Walker Treatment

May 11th, 2011 | Posted by

The Legislative Analyst’s Office is out with another report that attacks the California high speed rail project. Rather than work to find the best way to ensure it gets built, the LAO appears to be throwing in their lot with the emerging anti-HSR strategy coming from Senators Alan Lowenthal and Joe Simitian. The report suggests that California delay the HSR project even at the risk of losing $4 billion in federal funds already awarded to the project. It suggests that the Central Valley not be the first segment constructed, and suggests that the project be placed under the authority of Caltrans – even though as the LAO admits, Caltrans has no experience with this kind of work.

The LAO makes some other recommendations too, of varying degrees of value, but the headline suggestion – that HSR be essentially put on ice – is a slap in the face to California voters, who support this project and expect it to be built as quickly as possible.

The LAO has attacked the HSR project before – and with similarly disappointing results. In January 2010 they leveled a flawed criticism of the HSR project. The May 2011 report, curiously timed to be released just as the State Senate is taking up a bill to blow up the California High Speed Rail Authority board and replace it with a bunch of people skeptical of the project’s value.

The basic flaws of this LAO report are as follows:

1. It does not adequately acknowledge the risk of losing federal funding if the report’s recommendations are implemented. Loss of these funds will essentially kill the HSR project, necessitating massive freeway and airport expansions in the future, and suppressing needed job creation.

Fund Only Needed Administrative Tasks for Now. We recommend that the Legislature reject the administration’s 2011–12 budget request for $185 million in funding for consultants to perform project management, public outreach, and other work to develop the project, and only appropriate at this time the $7 million in funding requested for state administration of the project by HSRA.

Seek Flexibility on Use of Federal Funds. We propose that the Legislature direct HSRA to renegotiate the terms of the federal funding awarded to the state by the Federal Rail Administration (FRA). We believe the state must obtain relief from the current federal restrictions on the project if it is to be developed successfully, and therefore that the Legislature should proceed with the project only if this flexibility is obtained from the federal government.

The LAO’s headline recommendations – to essentially defund the CHSRA and reject federal funding – are the equivalent of what Republican Governors Scott Walker, John Kasich, and Rick Scott did to HSR funding in their states. Did anyone tell the LAO that voters approved high speed rail funding in November 2008? Or that they dealt a crushing defeat to anti-HSR Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman in November 2010? The LAO is calling for the state legislature to reverse the will of the voters. That’s highly inappropriate. The LAO’s job is to help the Legislature implement the project – not call for it to be undermined.

The federal government is highly unlikely to agree to such a request if California were insane enough to make it. The feds are already having a tough enough time fighting the Republicans in Congress over HSR funding. If California were to demand “flexibility” it would immediately be spun by the Republicans as further “proof” that HSR is a bad idea. The White House would either do as they did to Florida – demand that the project move ahead as originally planned or take back the money and give it to someone else. The LAO’s grasp of the politics of the issue are simply incompetent.

As to the question of the CHSRA funding, cutting it back to $7 million would totally cripple the project no matter what happens with the federal funding. The CHSRA, under new CEO Roelof van Ark, has been doing an increasingly effective job of conducting better planning and public outreach on the project. All that work would grind to a halt if the project were defunded, as the LAO proposes. It would be very difficult to start that work back up – and it would certainly be more costly. Federal stimulus deadlines would be jeopardized, and if the LAO things the feds can be flexible on that, they’re nuts.

The LAO’s fiscal recommendations are simply irresponsible.

2. The LAO report irresponsibly claims that the entire project could cost $67 billion. This is a figure extrapolated from outdated numbers and is not based on any sound analysis of project features, materials and construction costs, or land values for the entire HSR system. Further, their claim does not take into consideration the Authority’s recent approach of “value engineering,” including last week’s decision to reject a costly viaduct through Fresno.

NIMBYs have been running around claiming – without ANY evidence – that the project will actually cost $67 billion. They have no solid facts for this claim. They have not done an analysis of materials costs, construction costs, land values, the price of steel, the price of concrete, the possibility of inflation (or deflation), fuel costs, so on and so forth. The LAO has now embraced this claim, and like the NIMBYs, bases it in a deeply flawed assumption:

If the cost of building the entire Phase 1 system were to grow as much as the revised HSRA estimate for the 100–mile [Central Valley] segment discussed above, construction would cost about $67 billion. This extrapolation of costs, however, is based on the cost increase for a relatively straight–forward and uncomplicated segment of the proposed rail line. It is possible that some of the more urban segments could be even more significantly underestimated.

But the problem is that the estimate for the Central Valley segment is old. Just last week the CHSRA board voted to reject a costly viaduct through Fresno, saving hundreds of millions of dollars. The LAO’s report suggests the office is simply not aware of what the Authority is doing or planning. Instead it simply collected all the existing anti-HSR arguments, slapped their name on it, and is trying to use their reputation to give credibility to an attack on the project.

The LAO should know better than to engage in such uninformed speculation.

3. The LAO is engaging in deficit errorism, claiming that deficit spending does not create any lasting economic value and merely is a threat to the project.

State Would Incur Major Additional Debt Service Costs. The 2009 business plan assumes that $9 billion in state funding for the project will come from the sale of general obligation bonds approved by voters in Proposition 1A. The debt service payments on general obligation bonds are typically paid for from the state’s General Fund. We estimate that, should the state sell all of the $9 billion in voter–approved high–speed rail bonds, the state’s total principal and interest costs for repaying the debt would be $18 billion to $20 billion. This would require annual debt service payments of roughly $1 billion for the next two decades. Due to the dire condition of the state’s General Fund, adding such costs for debt service in the near future means that the Legislature would have to consider reducing costs for other state programs or increasing revenues to offset these costs.

This is a deeply flawed claim, because the LAO is not including here the stimulative effects of infrastructure spending. Nowhere do they address the tax revenues from the 160,000 jobs the project would create, jobs and revenues that the LAO believes should be put at risk by advocating for a delay of project implementation.

Nowhere do they examine the cost of delay to the residents and businesses of California by continued dependence on ever-more expensive gas and worsening highway and air congestion.

Nowhere do they address the costs of pollution and carbon emissions that would result from long delays to the project that the recommendations would cause.

The LAO ought to know, better than anyone in Sacramento, that if you’re going to assess the costs, you have to actually assess both sides of the equation – the spending side AND the revenues that the spending generates. I’m guessing nobody in the LAO office is familiar with the green dividend, which a US Conference of Mayors report from June 2010 indicated could be as much as $10 billion a year – $7.6 billion in new business sales and $3 billion a year in new wages. Both those things can be taxed, and that alone will get you close to, if not above, the debt service costs.

You won’t find that anywhere in the LAO report.

4. The LAO report suggests doing what Senator Alan Lowenthal has always wanted – gutting the HSR project into nothing more than disconnected commuter rail segments that do not serve the project’s primary purpose of moving travelers rapidly from SF to LA.

The first section of the project to be built will be the Central Valley, connecting Fresno and Bakersfield and extending out toward LA and SF. The federal government dictated this (and the LAO naively thinks that can be ignored) because the Central Valley has some of the highest unemployment in the state, and since the federal funds are stimulus funds, they should go where jobs are needed the most.

As with the Interstates, you have to start building somewhere – but the ultimate goal is a system that connects SF to LA. The Central Valley is where construction is the cheapest, so it makes sense to get started there. After all, the goal is to connect SF to LA, and the Central Valley is the spine of that project.

The LAO doesn’t seem to care about that. In what may be a sign of collaboration between the LAO and Senator Lowenthal’s office, a look at the segments they propose to fund instead shows that they have totally forsaken the goal of fast, European or Asian-style intercity bullet trains for merely upgrading commuter rail. The LAO ought to know that’s forbidden under Prop 1A. But they do it anyway:

Alternative Segments Could Provide More Benefit to the State

For several reasons discussed earlier, there is a significant risk to the state that the statewide high–speed rail system envisioned in Proposition 1A will never be fully completed. It is possible that only a segment or two of the system will ultimately be constructed. The High–Speed Rail Authority has chosen to begin construction of the system on a 123–mile segment from near Fresno to Bakersfield. If this is the only portion of the system built, the state would realize some service improvements for the San Joaquin intercity rail corridor, such as shorter trip times and better on–time service. This intercity rail service currently runs six trains daily in each direction. However, based on our analysis, other segments could provide greater benefit to the state’s overall transportation system even if the rest of the high–speed rail system were not completed. Below, we describe three segments that warrant consideration as alternatives to the Central Valley line.

* Los Angeles–Anaheim. This highly travelled corridor includes commuter, freight, and intercity rail traffic, which could benefit greatly from corridor improvements along the alignment shared with the proposed high–speed rail system. Fifty passenger trains run daily through this corridor, at times sharing tracks with roughly 75 freight trains. In addition, grade separations that could be built as part of a high–speed rail project would improve the flow of auto traffic along the corridor because vehicles would no longer have to stop and wait for passing rail. Finally, to the extent improved passenger rail service in this corridor led to increased ridership, it could reduce pressure on other transportation modes and decrease the need for infrastructure projects that expand the capacity of the roads.

* San Francisco–San Jose. Similar to Los Angeles–Anaheim, capital projects in this heavily congested corridor could improve both rail and auto traffic. This segment currently hosts 86 commuter trains daily, and freight trains use it at night.

* San Jose–Merced. The state provides intercity rail service from Sacramento to Merced (and on to Bakersfield), and a separate rail service between Sacramento and San Jose. If the state chose the segment between San Jose and Merced for a high–speed rail project, the state would essentially “close the loop” and enable a significant increase in passenger rail mobility between the Central Valley and the Bay Area. This benefit from high–speed rail construction would result even if high–speed trains ultimately were never operated on the system. A recent report prepared by a Bay Area transportation commission projects that the number of commuters traveling daily from the Central Valley to the Bay Area will double by 2030, adding 60,000 commuters a day.

The LAO report gives the appearance of dictating state policy rather than providing objective advice and reliable numbers to the legislature. Under the new Legislative Analyst, Mac Taylor, the LAO has been doing a lot more of that lately, and it’s starting to become a very serious problem. The LAO cannot provide objectivity and useful analysis if it is seen as having a position or a side in policy debates.

5. The LAO calls for placing the CHSRA under Caltrans – even though it admits Caltrans has no project experience.

This one pretty much speaks for itself:

While we believe there are merits to shifting the project to Caltrans, there are reasons to be concerned about such a shift. For instance, transportation experts within and outside state government have expressed concerns about Caltrans’ ability to effectively implement this project, citing the department’s longstanding focus on highways and lack of expertise in working with private partners on PPPs. In addition, our office has in recent years found some significant management problems in Caltrans. Finally, some experts suggest that the project should be viewed not as a state project but as a PPP under which the state would cede a significant level of control to private partners.

This sections seems quite clearly intended to make the case for something like Lowenthal’s SB 517, which calls for the CHSRA board to be replaced by a group of people skeptical to the project. Caltrans wouldn’t necessarily be skeptical, but it won’t provide effective governance or leadership. Lowenthal’s bill appears designed to ensure the project does not have effective governance, so that it becomes easier for him to get his hands on the Prop 1A money and simply redirect it elsewhere.

The LAO report mentions some specific ways in which Caltrans expertise could be useful to the project. Those can and should be explored, but as a partnership.

6. The LAO report does not really take HSR seriously as a proposal. As we saw in the January 2010 report, the LAO apparently does not have anyone with any knowledge of global HSR projects, and worse, does not appear to have even done any research at all on those projects. They describe the benefits of HSR, but to the LAO these benefits are merely “theoretical”:

The proposed high–speed rail system could have some positive fiscal benefits. For example, HSRA estimates that this project would alleviate the need to build 3,000 new lane–miles of freeway, and 5 airport runways and 90 new departure gates—at a cost of nearly $100 billion—that would otherwise be necessary to accommodate intrastate travel by 2030. This is because the state’s population is projected to grow steadily for decades and significant investment in transportation infrastructure is expected to be needed to accommodate travelers between Northern and Southern California. In theory, if those travelers choose the high–speed rail system instead of other modes, the project could reduce the state’s overall infrastructure costs.

In addition, beginning construction of the project could have some positive effects on the state’s economy. For example, the infusion of federal funds and potentially other private funds from outside the state, such as international partners who might invest in the project, would benefit the overall economy at least in the short run. Some work, such as the construction of rail cars, could be performed by California firms….

Finally, some have argued that investing in high–speed rail infrastructure instead of other modes of transportation could lead to improved environmental outcomes, such as better air quality. This is because the proposed system will be electrically powered and not require fossil fuels the way most automobiles and aircraft currently do. However, other studies have suggested that the project may not realize such improved environmental outcomes, especially if levels of ridership were low to moderate.

It’s really sad to see the LAO using weasel words here. They have no clue that HSR ridership around the world is very high, and apparently have no clue that private sector interest in the project is high.

The LAO report should not be taken seriously as a basis for policy discussions by the state legislature. All HSR supporters should rally against it and its findings. The LAO has overstepped its bounds here, trying to set policy for the state instead of dispassionately providing comprehensive analysis. The HSR project may need some reforms, but the LAO is proposing to gut it entirely. The legislature and the governor should reject it outright.

  1. Donk
    May 11th, 2011 at 08:16
    #1

    Who is the LAO? Who hired them? How do they have any credibility?

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    The Legislative Analyst is Mac Taylor, who came in to replace his predecessor Elizabeth Hill in 2008. He’s worked at the LAO for about 20 years. The office had a ton of credibility for its insightful reports, but I worry that they are getting more activist and siding with different policy proposals. That’s something I’ve seen from their state budget work too, so it’s not just HSR.

    Rick Rong Reply:

    Donk, in response to your question, see http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/Careers/journal_articles/lao_island.aspx. The following quotation is taken from that link:

    “The office is overseen by a joint committee (the Joint Legislative Budget Committee), which consists of 16 Members—eight from each house. Traditionally, a Senator chairs the committee with an Assembly Member serving as the vice chair. Both the committee and the office have statutory authority in the Government Code (statutory authority was enacted in 1951—a decade after adoption of the joint rule establishing the office and the committee). This provides continuity when there is a change in either the executive or legislative leadership. Funding for the office comes equally from the Senate and the Assembly. In order to protect the office from elimination by a line item veto, the budget bill contains an appropriation of zero for the office but references the transfer of funding from each house to support our operations. Employees of the office are legislative staff, with the Legislative Analyst serving at the pleasure of the committee and the balance of the staff appointed by the Analyst.”

  2. ajmstilt
    May 11th, 2011 at 08:23
    #2

    It’s amazing how detractors will decry an entire project for missing a minor detail of process. “ZOMG They used 13 point font on form 132A-234 seven years ago and should have used 12 point font, therefore the whole thing is illegal”. Yet They will quickly ignore federal and state law that doesn’t suit them on the slightest whim “Yeah the law says SF to LA, and the Feds say to start in the central valley…. p’shaw, we’ll just get a waiver”…

    And how the frell does a government agency get away with the weaseley: “some have argued…”? The whole point of such an exercise to cut through that kind of bull**** not add to it.

    But thank you Robert for such a thorough debunking of a flawed report.

  3. Mike
    May 11th, 2011 at 08:35
    #3

    My favorite part is where LAO criticizes the Authority for being insufficiently staffed to manage a project of this magnitude. Then goes on to reveal that the Legislature and DOF have only authorized 40 positions for the authority, many of which have been held up in a statewide hiring freeze. Then somehow magically ignores the solution wherein the Legislature and DOF authorize the Authority to hire more staff. Instead, the “solution” is to move the project into the belly of the most ossified, bureaucratically inept agency in state government.

    My second favorite bit is where LAO points out that Caltrans has staff and expertise in ROW acquisition, legal, public outreach etc., and uses this as an argument for why HSR should be part of Caltrans. Somehow conveniently overlooking the option — explicitly authorized in state law — wherein the Authority would Contract with Caltrans for specific services. I even agree that it would make sense to use Caltrans ROW staff (and maybe even legal and outreach), but ONLY IF Caltrans has available skilled workforce (not new hires), and ONLY on a contract basis.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    Yep. Further evidence that the LAO is calling for the end of the HSR project.

  4. tony d.
    May 11th, 2011 at 09:16
    #4

    Just playing devils advocate, but what if you hypothetically split the current $12.5 billion between NorCal and SoCal?
    Completely revamped, HSR Caltrain from SF-Gilroy, HSR ACE from SJ-Stockton, HSR Metrolink in the southland?
    Not saying I agree with the LAO, but I’m intrigued by this regional approach.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    The problem is that’s all we’d ever get. Lowenthal in particular has wanted this all along – use the money for commuter rail and screw the intercity stuff. This approach would ensure SF and LA won’t be connected for a few more decades.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    And this is just the kind of confusion that makes DC nervous about funding and then looking stupid that they gave money for its construction.

    Mike Reply:

    Yeah, I think Robert’s correct (as usual). If you hypothetically split the $12.5 billion between Norcal and SoCal, you could have revamped/upgraded/higher-speed Caltrain, ACE, and Metrolink. Which would be nice. But the term “HSR” wouldn’t belong in there anywhere, especially to the extent that “HSR” means “Interregional California HSR.”

    And, of course, Prop 1A requires a dollar-for-dollar match, so there really isn’t $12.5b available yet, not without more matching funds.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    Robert,

    On what basis do you say this? Please give some specifics.

    Eric M Reply:

    Pot calling the kettle black?

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Robert doesn’t spread FUD.

    Davide Reply:

    The problem is that’s all we’d ever get. Lowenthal in particular has wanted this all along – use the money for commuter rail and screw the intercity stuff.

    This approach would ensure SF and LA won’t be connected for a few more decades.

    (Southwest, Virgin, United Airlines, American, Jet Blue…. $50 one-way)

    Just playing devils advocate, but what if you hypothetically split the current $12.5 billion between NorCal and SoCal?
    Completely revamped, HSR Caltrain from SF-Gilroy, HSR ACE from SJ-Stockton, HSR Metrolink in the southland?

    (Sounds good – regional fixes get people out of cars, cut emissions also – too bad there’s limited taxpayer dollars – BART around the SF Bay Area to all 9 counties, underwater connectors from Hayward East Bay to San Mateo and Bart extended from Millbrae to Santa Clara, then past Dumbarton to Alameda, and underwater connector from Napa and Sonoma county to SF – opens up a lot of land and cheaper housing north into Napa/Sonoma/Solano counties and with direct connector to SF only about 30 minutes)

    Joey Reply:

    All that sounds good, assuming it is NOT done with BART.

    Paulus Magnus Reply:

    You could end up with high speed diesels between Los Angeles and San Diego under such a plan, with times comparable to the current HSR plans.

    VBobier Reply:

    And add to California’s smog problems? Not a chance.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    Just playing devils advocate, but what if you hypothetically split the current $12.5 billion between NorCal and SoCal?

    You’d get BART past the dead auto assembly in Warm Springs, past the San José Flea Market all the way to the dead FMC armoured personnel carrier assembly plant in Santa Clara.

    Oh, and nothing else anywhere else.

    But it’s exactly what the Capital of Silicon Valley wants.

    tony d. Reply:

    You need to try commuting one morning on 880 from Alameda Co. to San Jose/Silicon Valley.
    That will surely change your biased view on the BART to SJ project.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    Dear Tony,

    I spent 15 years commuting to Silicon Valley.

    Thanks for playing. Or trying to play, that is, way out of your league.

    Alex M. Reply:

    You need to stop being a jerk. If you were polite, people might actually take you seriously.

    VBobier Reply:

    He’s serious? If He is, Maybe He’d like a Bone to gnaw on… ;)

    Peter Reply:

    More like nails to chew.

    VBobier Reply:

    Funny, Maybe He should like Eddie Munster stop chewing on his nails. ;)

    Peter Reply:

    Oh, I’m talking rusty steel nails…

    Clem Reply:

    There’s no doubt the 880 / 680 corridors need relief from good and fast rail transit service. What Richard was pointing out is that half of $12.5 billion sounds like a ton of money, but is only equivalent to the cost of the BART to SJ extension… at least before cost overruns (25% on BART’s last extension)

    Do the ends (relieving 880/680) justify the means ($6 billion of concrete poured, that doesn’t serve the 680 corridor and doesn’t serve the golden triangle within 237/101/880) ?

    I guess there’s always the Altamont Overlay, which will solve everything that is and has been screwed up about strategic transit decisions in and around San Jose.

    Joe Reply:

    The overlay will cure cancer too! Or so I’m told.

    This is local vs regional. Locally, in the bay area the clout is behind Caltrain and BART, maybe corridor amtrack improvements. Losing HSR authority will not improve likelihood of an altamont alignment.

    Clem Reply:

    Caltrain? Clout?!? You’re not from around here, are you…

    Peter Reply:

    Hehehe

    Joe Reply:

    Har har har.

    You’ll see more spent on the Caltrain ROW than effort improving Altamont, dedicated track, or building the Dunbarton rail bridge, Facebook or not. Worthy efforts but IMHO the dynamics have focused attention on Caltrain’s infrastructure and service between SF and SJ. Tamien and south lack stakeholders.

    Reality Check Reply:

    Dumbarton. People who have trouble remembering might try remembering how dumb it is that pro-Pacheco HSR boosters from SJ keep talking about how impossible it would be to cross the Bay in the Dumbarton corridor when justifying why Pacheco is so much better … or how dumb it is that MTC defunded Dumbarton Rail so that stalled BART to Warm Springs could move ahead. (Dumbarton might not have been the greatest project, but at least it wasn’t BART.)

    joe Reply:

    Impossible, no.

    Building a HSR capable bridge across the Bay would be very difficult because it’s more disruptive to rarer ecosystems and there are alternative routes.

    Funding to rehabilitate the rail bridge for the commuter rail service is an achievable goal.

    Dumbarton rail crossing runs by the new Facebook campus (9,000 additional employees) which, if they, Google and others actually develop the eastern side of 101, becomes more relevant to the impacted cities on the Peninsula that want the development revenue.

    Joey Reply:

    Pacheco also requires a viaduct through Central Valley wetlands. Which is more of a challenge, I’m not saying. Though with Dumbarton you also have the relatively inexpensive tunnel option.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    “inexpensive tunnel” is an oxymoron.

    Joey Reply:

    RELATIVELY inexpensive.

    Interestingly enough though, IIRC the CHSRA’s own estimates put the tunnel at only $400m more than the high bridge, and that was before the water tunnels were a factor.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Suburban Madrid (or Seoul, or Helsinki) builds subway tunnels for $50 million per kilometer. Manhattan builds commuter rail tunnels for $4 billion per kilometer. Conclusion: some tunneling projects are more expensive than others.

    Joey Reply:

    Funny, the CHSRA’s average costs for the entire system are what other countries build tunnels for…

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    The tunnels are the expensive part in Manhattan. Threading new stations without ripping doewn skyscrapers is the expensive part. That doesn’t explain the Stegosaurus though. They are toying with 3 billion for that aren’t they?

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    …tunnels aren’t the expensive part…

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Neither BART of the Altamont overlay solve commuting problems unless someone is planning on building 40 story office towers clustered around the train stations and turning the campus style offices into housing.

    Winston Reply:

    You don’t need 40 story towers. Even a dense neighborhood with low rise and mid rise buildings around the BART station like this one will do the job (10,000 daily station exits). Unfortunately the planned BART station neighborhoods look like this and this. It is a good bet that the BART extension to the San Jose Flea market will initially get about 12,000 boardings daily and add a similar number of boardings at other stations. This is equivalent to adding a lane to 680 or 880. I would expect about 18,000 daily boardings 20 years from now with what will likely get built. Not worth the money, but an improvement.

    Winston Reply:

    Oops, the actual Great Mall station location is worse. It’s here: http://goo.gl/maps/wIdQ

    Joe Reply:

    The DC METRO has examples of walkable urban access and stations surrounded by a massive parking lot.

    The technology is costly, but it does not mandate bad development. The drive,park to ride design sucks.

    What does suck is my old Noe Valley neighborhood, 1890ish, would not be legal today, in SF. Not enough parking.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    The 10,000 people getting on BART at that station in San Francisco aren’t getting on BART to then go to Montgomery Street and get on 20 minute shuttle bus ride to their office. People in the East Bay or beyond aren’t going to make their way to a BART station, either by car or bus, take BART to Santa Clara and then a 20 minute shuttle bus ride to the office campus. They’ll drive until traffic becomes so bad that the bus to the train to bus is faster.

    Winston Reply:

    Most won’t. However my guess of 12,000 daily riders for the 3 stations on the Warm Springs and San Jose extensions isn’t based on that. It is based on the number of boardings on similar stations in the East Bay. Speciffically, I would expect Warm Springs to perform worse than North Concord (the lowest ridership station in the system), Milpitas to perform like Bay Fair and the Flea Market station to perform a bit worse than East Dublin.

    Derek Reply:

    Adding capacity to a transportation corridor won’t eliminate congestion in the long term. To achieve that goal, you need congestion pricing.

    Joey Reply:

    If transit lines are planned competently, people will choose them over cars.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    There’s more than one way to price congestion. Unless you make the congestion tolls very high people will drive. You can price it in time too. Let the road congestion get so bad people take the train. And it’s probably going to be a train because buses get stuck in the same congestion.

    Derek Reply:

    If one goal of HSR is to help the environment, it would make us hypocrites to advocate more congestion, even if it pushes some people onto HSR.

    Nathanael Reply:

    If the congestion consisted of electric cars, which don’t emit fumes while idling (because they dn’t idle, they just stop), then congestion would be harmless environmentally. One reason I support electric cars. :-)

    ThomasD Reply:

    The LAO has not done his HSR homework to understand how its built successfully around the world. HSR is often built in 200-300 mile stretches, then connected to upgraded track ROW shared with commuter rail leading into stations.

    Why didn’t he pick up the phone an call the HSR accountants in France or Spain, South Korea or Taiwan?

    Nathanael Reply:

    “Why didn’t he pick up the phone an call the HSR accountants in France or Spain, South Korea or Taiwan?”

    That’s the biggest evidence that the LAO “report” is a hack job, isn’t it — the fact that he didn’t.

  5. Elizabeth
    May 11th, 2011 at 09:24
    #5

    LAO/ van Ark is testifying now at Assembly hearing -

    http://192.234.214.75/ASM-447

  6. Roger Christensen
    May 11th, 2011 at 10:11
    #6

    Does the LAO produce reports at the request of a legislator or are they originated independently?

    Arthur Dent Reply:

    The LAO is a fiscal and policy advisor to the Legislature. The report was triggered by this week’s transportation budget hearings. It’s not some great Lowenthal conspiracy as Robert would have you believe.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    In a Fresno Bee article, the LAO went on the record that this was NOT done on the request of a legislator but was done on their own initiative.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    They did not say it was NOT done on the request of a legislative *staffer*, however. So that possibility remains live.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    Robert,

    Here is the exact quote:

    Eric Thronson, the Legislative Analyst’s Office staffer who wrote the report, said it wasn’t requested by a legislator. Instead, he said, his office “felt like it was an important discussion to have.”

    Stop with the conspiracy theories and deal with the substance.

    Peter Reply:

    I’m sorry, but isn’t there already a peer-review group whose sole task is to have that important discussion?

    I don’t necessarily believe that the LAO prepared this report at the request of a specific legislator or his/her staff, but the fact remains that the report is EXCEPTIONALLY biased, internally inconsistent, based on outdated/false information, and does sound a lot like Reason/Heritage/Cato “reports”.

    Nadia Reply:

    The Peer Review Report also issued a very tough report. It came out May 5th – last week. Robert didn’t cover it at all though….

    It’s here on our site: http://www.calhsr.com/

    they also have really serious concerns and they will be having that important discussion today at 3pm in front of the Legislature. You can view it at: http://www.calchannel.com. Will Kempton will be presenting their findings.

    One of their biggest concerns – they better have a real business plan on or before Oct 14th or they can forget about doing this project. Considering they haven’t hired a financial consultant yet – that ought to be a very interesting discussion.

    Peter Reply:

    I just read through the Peer Review Report. There doesn’t seem to be anything new in it. Just issues we were already aware of and that are being dealt with.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    And that very little Reason foundation/ Cato has on their very website in embedded YouTube of the whole thing with their slanted comments abouth high-speed rail is dead.. and the news media always loving negativity is of course talking up the story in every single paper… but there is anything positive about the high-speed rail project or money being awarded you hardly see any reports.. pathetic

    Daniel Krause Reply:

    Everyone at the Capitol knows this is an organized, coordinated attack on the project. You can try to convince people otherwise to provide more legitimacy to this process, but that’s the true back story.

    synonymouse Reply:

    And you can rest assured that BART-MTC lobbyists are in the thick of it. They view hsr as an interloper and that they are more deserving of funding

    Risenmessiah Reply:

    Perhaps, but BART stands the most to gain if HSR is completed.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    “BART” (the nominally public agency) and “MTC” (the limitless corrupt, nominally public agency) are nothing more or less than pure tools of the private contractors they so handsomely feed.

    Since BART and CHSRA’s trough-feeder in chief is one and the same, there is no conflict.

    Head PBQD wins, tails we (the public) lose.

    I don’t see where synonymouse perceives “interloping”. It’s all just concrete and “design” contracts awarded to exactly the same people. The bigger the pie (eg duplicating Fremont-SJ with two different and incompatible and mind-numbingly expensive concrete wankfests) the bigger the payoffs.

    The conflict comes where there’s any potential of any one of
    * cost effective expenditure (ie prioritising operational efficiency over capital spending; prioritising urban needs over exurban black holes of subsidy; prioritising competitive proven multi-vendor solutions over vendor capture kickback scams and systems; etc);
    * doing something once and doing it right (eg Livermore-Fremont-SJ conventional rail) vs doing it over and over and over, the wrong and expensive way every time;
    * somebody other than a member of the mafiosi “winning” a contract (see “competitive proven multi-vendor solutions” — ie eg not BART design or systems.)

    With HSR to Los Banos, none of these problems arise, and so everybody is perfectly happy to keep incinerating public cash in the very most profligate fashion. Happy and profitable business as usual. Nothing to see here. No conflicts (of a type that matter.) Move along.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Perhaps I was thinking more like the BART unions. BART supplants hsr-Caltrain, etc., more members.

    Peter Reply:

    Perhaps you were? You don’t know what you were thinking? Now that’s news…

  7. Ken
    May 11th, 2011 at 10:40
    #7

    What we need are pro-HSR IT billionaires from Silicon Valley to set up a massive legal fund to shut these fuckers up.

    michael in sf Reply:

    Richard Branson to the rescue?!

    Paulus Magnus Reply:

    Let Apple build it. They actually could out of their own cash funds for that matter.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    We should register the domain name http://www.policestate.org. Maybe use the old .su domain if it’s still available.

    Ken Reply:

    Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffett can easily shell out $10 billion each to get HSR in CA rolling. At the same time, give them profit shares of the HSR system.

    synonymouse Reply:

    These guys don’t even want to help out with a few shekels to keep the SETI dish array up and running.

    Ask the Chandlers to donate the Tejon ROW.

    VBobier Reply:

    Thankfully Seti@Home doesn’t have that problem, As S@H uses the Arecibo Radio Dish down in Puerto Rico, The Seti You are referring to is the Seti Institute, Seti@Home is a Boinc Project that is funded by real donations from almost anyone and is running as I speak on thousands of PCs, Macs and other computers around the world. Oh and yes I know this is a fact, As I crunch numbers for Seti@Home while I sleep at night.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    Why should a brave capitalist IT billionaire be interested in writing bank checks to construct a system that has been vendor-designed to maximize cost and minimize use and revenue?

    Those Titans of Industry may be more lucky than smart, and more manipulative than technically innovative, but they’re not entirely stupid all of the time. (OK, so maybe HSR to Los Banos is as “good” an investment as Skype…) Asking, say, Larry Ellison to please give billions of his dollars directly to an engineering consultancy and not even getting a kewl Shogun’s palace in return seems a bit of a stretch. What’s in it for them?

    As for the philanthropy, PB’s and HNTB’s and PTG’s bottom line has got to be way down the list behind trifles like malaria eradication, funding the University of California, funding local schools, funding third world schools, funding hospitals, providing birth control world wide, funding carbon-negative energy source research, etc, etc, etc.

    Get real!

    Paulus Magnus Reply:

    We could give them pimped out train sets for it.

    Ken Reply:

    Virtual monopoly on the background IT infrastructure to run the trains? It takes computers and software to run the trains; Microsoft or Apple can have exclusive monopoly for the reservation system or such.

    How about insurance? Just like cars and planes, accidents do happen. Geico can gain exclusive monopoly on insuring those train sets.

    How about WiFi? AT&T or Verizon exclusivity? Payments? Only VISA accepted (similar to AMEX only accepted at Costco)?

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Question to the gallery: is the total cost of the IT behind such things 1, 2, or 3 orders of magnitude less than the amount of money Ken is asking the companies to fork over?

    Ken Reply:

    Plunking a billion by VISA now into the system with the prospect of giving them monopoly in transaction fees from every HSR rider who purchases a ticket for years to come sounds to be a good deal.

    Would you pay $5000 to buy a new scooter so that you end up knocking off 60-70% fuel cost from your commute years to come? I did and could never be happier.

    joe Reply:

    Yeah, like what billion twit would take on large, entrenched contractors and Big gubberment?

    Aside from Elon Musk.

    Nathanael Reply:

    If I become a billionaire, I’m afraid I’d have other priorities.

    Most of the billionaires simply aren’t that civic-minded (Buffett is a decent guy, but not particularly into “improve the world” projects; Gates only started doing any charitable donations under pressure and delegated it all to his father, since it’s just not his thing). Soros is trying to save the economy, democracy and the rule of law in the US, so he’s busy. Branson is British, so of course he’s focusing on the UK. Elon Musk is trying to eliminate the gasoline car industry…. And then there’s the billionaires who are just *nasty* people, which is the general account of Ellison.

    But anyway, even as a train fan, if I became a billionaire, California HSR *still* wouldn’t be my top priority, because I’m not a Californian; NY-Chicago would be far more tempting.

  8. Richard Witt
    May 11th, 2011 at 11:31
    #8

    Just sent a copy of this craziness to my Sen. and Assemblymen. Always have to keep an eye on anal-yst’s, some have just one agenda and it doesn’t benefit John Q. Public.

  9. Eric M
    May 11th, 2011 at 12:08
    #9

    Elizabeth,

    I have a question for you? Since you were so bothered by high speed rail board members having a conflict of interest recently which you wanted resolved, how would you explain YOUR conflict of interest being part of Green Meadow Community Association and also a part of CARRD? How can you be “neutral”, yet represent the interest of homeowners possible affected by Caltrain right of way expansion?

    Peter Reply:

    Nadia or Elizabeth, I forget which one, stated on this blog that they were not neutral, actually.

    Eric M Reply:

    Then back to the conflict of interest. A group wanting the Attorney General to resolve a conflict of interest, yet has one itself.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    It was as a volunteer for my neighborhood that I first started following the project. When we started CARRD, other people in the neighborhood took over what I had been doing because my interests weren’t really at the local level.

    It’s a nice place – you should come visit someday.

    Eric M Reply:

    Really? I see you and Nadia are still listed.

    Nadia Reply:

    Actually, I started my neighborhood association AFTER I formed CARRD and the two don’t mix. Just ask my neighbors.

    Seriously Eric, with the LAO report out and the Peer Review Report out you want to discuss our potential conflicts on VOLUNTEER positions? We are not being paid – we don’t work for the state of California. This is lame.

    Stick to the subject and debate the merits of the project….

    Joe Reply:

    Conflicts are determined by having a over riding financial stake. By definition, the nimby concern about the local impact on their property is a conflicted position. Is that bad? No. It is still a conflict in personal vs regional interests.

    Eric M Reply:

    Seriously Nadia, I don’t care if you are volunteers or not. You are concerned with conflicts of interest and yet you are in the middle of one. Just because the LAO report came out doesn’t mean your conflicts should be overlook and the true intentions of your group CARRD. As for the merits of the project, that is something you, Elizabeth or anyone at CARRD believes does not exist for this project, represented by the lack of positive documentation (technical and otherwise) that comes out favoring changes to the HSR project,

    CARRD exemplifies the “Death by a Thousand Cuts” with regards to the high speed rail project. Raise concerns in a small enough fashion that emphasizes the negative, but not large enough to look as though you are totally against the project and your ultimate goal of trying to kill it (which started with your documentation presentation to city council members about ridership and a lawsuit trying to force the alignment to the other side of the bay).

    “Lame”, I don’t think so….

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    I don’t see anything illegitimate at all about Nadia’s activism. Then again, I didn’t see anything illegitimate at all about Curt Pringle and Richard Katz serving on two boards. I’d rather take the consistent position – if I thought it was OK for Pringle and Katz, it’s OK for Nadia.

    Rick Rong Reply:

    Robert, the law concerning incompatible offices does not apply to volunteer citizen activists. It applies to public officials. You have often cited Proposition 1A as being the will of the voters. You also refer with approval to advice letters from the AG’s office concerning Proposition 1A. If you want to be consistent, acknowledge that the law prohibits the holding of incompatible offices, and acknowledge that the AG’s office concluded that being on the HSR board is incompatible with holding certain local or regional public offices.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Fine debate the merits of the project and don’t sling FUD.

  10. morris brown
    May 11th, 2011 at 12:33
    #10

    Fitting nicely from the LAO, to rebut Robert’s 2900 word article here, are videos released by the LAO

    Mac Taylor Press Conference–High-Speed Rail Is at a Critical Juncture (7 min 30 seconds)

    Legislative Analyst Mac Taylor speaks to reporters about the LAO report

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA9zxZN40kU

    ———–
    Also from the LAO is Eric Thronson talking about the report

    High-Speed Rail Is at a Critical Juncture

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo_HfSQYzCM&feature=related (4 min 30 sec)..

    ——-
    and finally also from the LAO question and answers from the press ( 21 minutes)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-Kf6TbjCSE&feature=related

    Mike Reply:

    Interesting; in the Q&A video Dan Walters (nobodies idea of an HSR supporter) seems to be skeptical of the idea of moving the project to Caltrans, and seems to understand that it’s unrealistic to expect that there would be a federal commitment to fully fund the project (as opposed to providing annual funding in increments).

    And Thronson gives an inept defense of putting Caltrans in charge, saying that Caltrans has a lot of experience developing community consensus for transportation projects … oh, except for the difficult ones like the 710 freeway in Pasadena, which Caltrans has failed at for 40 years.

    Drunk Engineer Reply:

    The reason for putting Caltrans in charge has nothing to do with assuaging local concerns.

    The issue is that CHSRA is way, way out of its league for managing a large-scale construction project. That isn’t in their skill set, whereas Caltrans is very capable in that area.

    Joe Reply:

    Caltrans couldn’t run a train around an XMas tree. They’ll break up HSR into local projects. That’s all they know how to do now, segments.

    VBobier Reply:

    Actually Caltrans runs Amtrak California, So they can’t be all that bad and folding the CHSRA under Caltrans protective wing could be just what is needed to shield HSR from Simitty, Eschew and Lowenbrau.

    Winston Reply:

    Strictly speaking, Caltrans only runs the San Joaquin and the Surfliner. The Capitols are run by BART under contract from the CCJPA. This is a relic of a past attempt in the state legislature to eliminate statewide rail service by having local boards take over each of the 3 routes with the goal of eventually eliminating state funding. However nobody was willing to form a JPA to run the Surfliners or the San Joaquins, so they stayed with Caltrans.

    J. Wong Reply:

    I don’t know, but I think that all operations on all three and including Caltrain are run by Amtrak. That is, the engineers, conductors, etc. are Amtrak employees. Am I wrong about this? I know that the Caltrain conductors were Amtrak employees at one point (I asked). My understanding is that all three Amtrak California are also staffed by Amtrak employees although funded by the state through Caltrans.

    Winston Reply:

    Amtrak is a contract operator for these three services as they were (and I believe still are) on Caltrain . So yes, the engineers, conductors etc. are Amtrak employees. Amtrak also has a marketing agreement with Amtrak California to market it as part of the Amtrak system. However the service planning, negotiating with the railroads, ensuring that the railroads comply with their contracts etc. is done by Caltrans for everything but the Capitols and by BART for the Capitols. BARTD doesn’t do this out of the goodness of their hearts, of course, they do this because the CCJPA pays them to do so. One way to look at this is that BART and Caltrans are to Amtrak California what Caltrain’s staff is to Caltrain.

    Nathanael Reply:

    In other words, most of what Caltrans does for Amtrak California is legal negotiations and paperwork. Amtrak ends up providing most of the expertise in other matters.

    joe Reply:

    Run as in construct – run a road through the wilderness. Run track down the middle of HW 101.

    Mike Reply:

    @Drunk Engineer, I’m just commenting on the discussion captured on the Q&A video, in which Dan Walters asked about community outreach.

    I agree that Caltrans has a lot of experience managing and delivering major transportation projects, but their track record is one of turning small/simple projects into large/complex/expensive ones that take forever to deliver, and of turning large, unique projects into engineering and fiscal disasters, c.f. Bencia Bridge and Bay Bridge. If Caltrans is going to run high speed rail, I’d join the “pull the plug” team.

    Drunk Engineer Reply:

    MTC is the toll bridge authority in the Bay Area. Caltrans’ responsibility is simply to build the project as specified by the MTC — the self-anchored suspension span was not Caltrans’ idea.

  11. datacruncher
    May 11th, 2011 at 14:11
    #11

    I notice that the LAO is using different bond terms than were given to voters in Prop 1A.

    The LAO in this report appears to refer to a 20 year bond term but the Prop 1A summary assumed a 30 year term to calculate debt payments.

    LAO – May 2011 “We estimate that, should the state sell all of the $9 billion in voter–approved high–speed rail bonds, the state’s total principal and interest costs for repaying the debt would be $18 billion to $20 billion. This would require annual debt service payments of roughly $1 billion for the next two decades.”

    Prop 1A Ballot Summary – “State costs of about $19.4 billion, assuming 30 years to pay off both principal ($9.95 billion) and interest ($9.5 billion) costs of the bonds. Payments of about $647 million per year.”

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    Good catch! That is a very interesting change they made.

    datacruncher Reply:

    Its interesting since they are criticizing CAHSRA for not having accurate numbers but then the LAO doesn’t use the bond term numbers that voters were given without explaining the discrepancy. Looks like the LAO is doing sloppy work.

    Miles Bader Reply:

    The whole thing smells weird… it might be sloppiness, but it’s also exactly the sort of sneaky sleight-of-hand that one sees in “analysis” from anti-rail lobbying organizations like the Reason Foundation.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if this was based on “input” helpfully provided by a third party…

    morris brown Reply:

    As I recall there is flexibility in issuing what maturity of bonds to use. I believe that even 40 year bonds could be approved. The LAO’s use now of 20 year bonds most likely reflects the State’s current in-ability to float bond issues due to its low credit rating. It was noted that our treasurer, Bill Lockyer, had to pull back a bond offering recently because of lack of interest and earlier had to sell only 1/2 of the bonds they wanted to place, because of lack of interest.

    You would have been complaining about the use of 30 or 40 year bonds, since it would be noted much high total cost between debt service and principal.

    joe Reply:

    Yeah that’s it – they we’re worried about CA defaulting – an illegal act and nonsense if you believe the CA Constitution. But hey, when the LAO screws up a core competency, it’s got to be for a reason. Let’s cook one up.

    Love to see them play table pool.

    VBobier Reply:

    What as? The 8 Ball about to be sunk in the Corner Pocket?

    joe Reply:

    yep,

    tony d. Reply:

    So does the LAO have the ability to change the bonds term (30 to 20) or did they just
    do that for sensationalism? If it’s the latter than that’s pretty lame of them.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    The LAO is supposed to be an objective analyst, with no policymaking powers. So they don’t have the ability to change the term of the bond. Not sure where the hell that came from. We knew that the LAO does not have anyone on staff with much knowledge of HSR projects around the world. But it would be very surprising for them to show this level of basic incompetence in not getting the bond term right.

    And that’s exactly what appears to have happened.

    Maybe we should defund the LAO?! (kidding.)

    VBobier Reply:

    Sure why not? Defund the LAO, California does have a Budget Deficit after all and I’m not kidding.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    They cannot be defunded

    VBobier Reply:

    Rats…

    Nathanael Reply:

    Sure they can. Just pass an initiative and referendum, this is California, isn’t it? :-)

    joe Reply:

    I’d ask for an investigation/Q&A with the LAO to ascertain why they screwed up on a core competency, finance, while venturing into areas where they’re less qualified – Q: Did LAO run HSR simulations using Sid Meier’s “Railroad Tycoon”?

    VBobier Reply:

    More likely they consulted a Ouija Board and a Magic 8 Ball…

    Winston Reply:

    The LAO has the ability to write reports and use them to advocate various policy positions.

  12. morris brown
    May 11th, 2011 at 17:55
    #12

    This afternoon, Senator Lowenthal held the first meeting of his select committee on High Speed Rail.

    He had vanArk, Will Kempton (peer review), Thronson (LAO) and member of his committee.

    This was excellent government at its best; the best meeting concerning the issues of the project being debated to date. (my opinion)

    The meeting is about 2 hr and 15 minutes. The video should be archived and available probably by Friday for those who missed it.

    Jack Reply:

    If you liked it, it must have been a trash fest. Simitian/Lowenthal want to redirect the money, they only way they can do that is if they kill hsr.

    Not going to happen. It’s time for our Federal government, who actually support HSR to step in and stop this crap.

    Robert you seem to have a hotline to Pelosi, can’t we get her to thump these moron’s on the head?

    Risenmessiah Reply:

    It was a good meeting, and not a trash fest in the least. But all sides backed away from being confrontational and talked down their differences. The LAO reiterated that the agency should negotiate with the Feds about where to spend the money. As if….

  13. Joe A.
    May 11th, 2011 at 18:13
    #13

    From the very beginning, I always had three main fears about the HSR project: 1 – that California’s dysfunctional politics would creep into the process, 2 – that consultants would design, that is conduct their business in a way that would bring them the most $, 3 – the fact the this country does not have a clue about designing/building HSR. I now fear that these factors have converged. I was very much relieved though when Mr. Van Ark was hired and consultations were started with European countries.

    It is always a terrible thing when you play into your critics hands, and that is exactly what California has done, aided and abetted by the LAO – either willingly or unwillingly.

    All this reminds me of a book I once read titled ” The United States of Incompetence”. It basically detailed examples of ineptness in government and in the private sector in the US; infrastructure projects were of coursed mentioned. I read this about 20 years ago now. Sadly things have not changed. Hopefully the legislature will have enough sense to make needed reform with out politicizing HSR, and continuing the CV segment as planned, but I fear the worst.

    joe Reply:

    You’re right on 1, 2 and 3.

    We have a pro HSR President and Governor. There’s a reason for the executive branch.

    I expect that if this fails, Brown’s name will be tied to the failure as will Obama. Both have yet to weight into the process, and if Brown doesn’t bless the LAO’s suggestions, neither will the president who would take beomcing the money back.

    4. Our infrastructure works when those in charge depend on it. Public transit was treated as a public service, now it’s a public necessity.

    VBobier Reply:

    Me too and I don’t like It either.

    synonymouse Reply:

    The hsr not politicized? That’s how we got Palmdale and Pacheco.

    But if you want politics wait until you apply the BART management mode. You ain’t seen nothing until you see what shenanigans an elected board of directors and the TWU or Amalgamated can pull off.

  14. political_incorrectness
    May 11th, 2011 at 18:31
    #14

    Another sign of “head up their a$$ syndrome”

    We need to “slow down” the project. Um, hello, we have worked on this thing now for 15 YEARS! We are going over decisions that were made again? How is that productive and helpful I wonder? Oh yeah! That’s right, we get another Bay Bridge in the works where the costs balloon cause people cannot make up their minds. Just stick with the plan, it is not a f*&$ing train to nowhere, and the Interstates did not get funded completely all at once, they started in one place and expanded out. When they were built, people moved out into Suburbs due to their easy accessibility (just look at Dallas). The next time I hear someone wants to “slow down” the project, how about we just limit 101 and 280 to 30 mph. Then we’ll talk about “slow down”

  15. D. P. Lubic
    May 11th, 2011 at 20:33
    #15

    Yonah Freemark has comments about this:

    http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2011/05/11/washington-california-and-the-curious-case-of-the-railway-to-somewhere/

    YesonHSR Reply:

    Very good article entry AND if don’t get some kind of transportation bill passed this year or late 12 early 13 I would say we won’t have an LA to SF opening day by 2020

    Clem Reply:

    Spot on. Without a clear federal commitment this project isn’t going to make it. And if there’s one place in America where HSR can make it, it’s right here in California… Fed willing.

    morris brown Reply:

    Clem:

    At the Lowenthal select committee meeting today (5-11-2011), vanArk made this exact point. Quoting from the Yonan Freemark

    “What is needed — and what has been needed for more than two years — is a Full-Funding Grant Agreement for intercity rail projects.”

    The point the LAO makes and is what Lowenthal and so many others are concerned, is that this is not the position of the Congress and anyone who had been reading the recent draft future funding, knows full well that isn’t going to happen, at least not in the near term (5 – 10 years)

    So should the project go forward? You can dream on, but this is not forthcoming from the Feds, and without it, no private equity is going to join etc.

    Thus far vanARk has failed to provide full funding for any “usable segment” for the project, much less show where full funding can be obtained for Phase 1.

    Video on that meeting should be up tomorrow or Friday.

    joe Reply:

    “Without a clear federal commitment this project isn’t going to make it.”

    You mean more money to build a trenched or tunneled system to everyone’s liking? There is currently a clear commitment for HSR.

    CA is fighting over the committed Fed money right now. The more the Feds provide, the more they’ll fight. LAO can churn out report after report on how to reallocate the funds.

    I think the Feds could easily run 4 tracks to SF if you wanted commitment as in taking over and mandating the system.

    “Thus far vanARk has failed to provide full funding for any “usable segment” for the project, much less show where full funding can be obtained for Phase 1.”

    If it were van Ark’s choice, he provide full funding but he does not provide funding – he executes with the funding at hand.

  16. Joe A.
    May 11th, 2011 at 21:23
    #16

    Very good article and analysis of the situation. HSR needs a dedicated funding source. Will any transportation bill in the congress fix this though? Does our congress have enough sense to do the right thing? The oil companies and automobile manufactures are actively fighting HSR; there lobbying presence is enormous. That I know of HSR does not have much lobbying power.

  17. Mike Jones
    May 11th, 2011 at 21:57
    #17

    At first blush CAHSR looks like a perfect HSR project. Two large urban areas (Bay Area/LA) with not much between them and less than 400 miles in distance apart. It is when you look at the actual project requirements that things start slipping and fast! That distance- with diversions via Fresno and Lancaster starts pushing 450 miles. This means an average speed of almost 170mph to achieve the 2:40H headline time, significantly faster than the TGV times in France. Of course, this gap is meant to be closed by using the latest 220mph trains, but meeting average times gets disproportionately harder the higher they are- even with the latest train technology. And of course, the CAHSR trains are going to start their journey by first travelling down the Peninsula at considerably less than 220mph. This won’t be their only impediment on the way to LA. I had always assumed that CAHSR was going to tunnel under the 3 mountain ranges in its way (and it was at one point, taking the direct route from San Jose under Henry W. Coe State Park), but to get that bargain basement $43 billion price tag, tunnels were not the order of the day. CAHSR is to be ostensibly squeezed in along existing highway and rail corridors, which is much cheaper, but probably doesn’t result in a lot of 220mph running except in the Valley.

    Another issue is those ridership figures. I cannot recall how many 10s of millions the project is predicated on, but Eurostar between London/Paris and Brussels currently moves 10 million per year, and that is not the figure that CAHSR is using. The assumption is that Californians will travel more than Europeans, a lot more. The problem is that there are actually a lot less Californians who’ll be able to use the CAHSR, than can currently access Eurostar. In Europe there is the infrastructure to get people to the stations- trains. California just doesn’t have this. The Bay Area with 7.5 million population probably has less potential for CAHSR trips than Lille (on Eurostar) with a population of 4 million (region). Is someone from Santa Rosa going to drive down to the Transbay Terminal to catch the train? The lack of connecting services means that additional stops are all the more important (Millbrae or Santa Clarita), all making an already marginal timing less attractive.

    HSR has achieved a lot in France sewing together the disparate cities of a country that is the size of California, but with California HSR may have just bitten off more than it can chew.

    Joey Reply:

    220 mph doesn’t actually save that much time over, say, 190-200 mph. I haven’t been able to do an accurate calculation, but I think it’s somewhere between a few seconds and a few minutes. If you really wanted to save time you would improve curves in the urban areas.

    Also, There *will* be tunneling though all of the mountain crossings. They won’t be all tunnel, more like ducking in and out of tunnels and onto viaducts, but tunnels have been there since the start. And what speed you can get through those crossings depends on a lot of things, including the maximum grades. I don’t know which crossings might support 200+, but it’s possible that some might.

    Clem Reply:

    Right. Speeding up the slow bits always saves more time and costs less than speeding up the fast bits.

    Mountain crossings at 3.5% don’t support 200+ mph. On the way up, the train doesn’t have enough power to maintain those speeds, and slows down as it climbs. On the way down, you have to limit speeds on long downgrades because an emergency braking event plus the potential energy lost over the considerable braking distance will overwhelm the thermal capacity of the brakes. But that’s just life in the mountains.

    Joey Reply:

    There were 2.5% options for some of the crossings, weren’t there? That still might not allow full speed, and of course would be more expensive.

    VBobier Reply:

    I do seem to remember some, But they require either longer tunnels or more tunnels, So tunnels are bad or rather cheap 3.5% tunnels are and 2.5% in My mind aren’t, I’d rather do tunnels with 2.5% grades instead of 3.5% as 2.5% would keep the average speed up and as such 2.5% would be the better investment where as 3.5% would be a poorer investment. The CHSRA needs insulation from the likes of Simitian and company and no matter what others say, Caltrans is as good a shelter as It gets, The CHSRA could be an Autonomous Agency under Caltrans, Plus there is a good deal of funding & staff in place there already over at Caltrans to take advantage of. The LAO has cited that the CHSRA doesn’t have enough staff, Well their exactly right and due to a hiring freeze cause of the current deficit and the legislature skimping on allowing the CHRSA to ever hire enough people to fully staff the Authority, So maybe a Marriage to Caltrans isn’t all that bad… It could be worse, there could be no CHSRA, At least under Caltrans roof It would have all It needs and hopefully with a measure of Autonomy and the power to use what It needs without interference from either Caltrans or the screwier elements of the legislature who’ve managed to hold It back for years.

    Peter Reply:

    Actually, the 2.5% alignment basically climbs straight up the mountains with a mix of tunnels an 200+ foot high aerials.

    Clem Reply:

    CHSRA’s latest business plan predicts 7.9 million riders between the LA Basin and SF Bay Area for the Phase I system (SF – Anaheim) by 2035, with fares at 83% of air. That doesn’t sound too crazy.

    There is the number 117 million that often gets bandied about.
    That was not for the Phase I system.
    That was not with 83% of airfare.
    That was not just between the LA Basin and SF Bay Area.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Eurostar is the single worst-performing HSR project in the world relative to the size of the metro areas it connects. In contrast, intranational HSR corridors have no trouble attracting higher ridership: the LGV Sud-Est, connecting Paris and Lille with Lyon and Marseille, carries 30 million passengers per year.

    CAHSR is indeed planned to tunnel under the mountains. The speed through the passes will not be 350 km/h – due to grades rather than curves or low track standards – but they won’t be very low either. The speed through Pacheco pass will be 220 km/h; I don’t remember the speed through the Tehachapis, but it’s in the same ballpark. The speed limit on the Peninsula is planned to be 200 km/h, higher than the TGVs’ limit in the Paris urban area and the Shinkansen’s limit between Tokyo and Shin-Yokohama.

    Drunk Engineer Reply:

    Eurostar is the single worst-performing HSR project in the world relative to the size of the metro areas it connects

    Eurstostar is a fair comparison. Given the amateur abilities of CHSRA, Eurostar is a more likely outcome than Sud-Est.

    neville snark Reply:

    Eurostar performed very poorly in the past but now – I think ever since the St. Pancras HS terminus was opened after modernisation – not any more. It’s at long last a winner.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Eurostar started out crippled by (1) a terrible financing scheme which led to excessively high prices early on, (2) making “Euroshuttle” car-on-train shuttles the priority, with Eurostar, oddly, treated as a second thought, (3) slow and very congested running through the most congested part of the entire UK network.

    #1 was resolved by bankruptcy (I tend to use this and Eurodisney as examples of “sucker financing” for public projects — get some suckers to pay to build it, wait until they go bankrupt, then let the public collect the results. In other words, socialized profits, privatized losses. Why do we always do the opposite in the US, privatizing profits and socializing losses?)
    #3 was resolved by the Channel Tunnel Rail Link and the new St. Pancras terminal.
    #2 mainly resulted in a bad balance of initial expenditures and the balance is straightened out now.

    Those were just the starting hurdles. Others have described the continuing hurdles: the UK’s excessive passport control “preclearance” regime (seriously, they can’t inspect the incoming trains in transit from Paris to Lille? Are you kidding me?) preventing through-running to anywhere except Paris and Brussels; the language barrier causing reduced traffic demand; etc.

    On top of that, a Channel Tunnel is an inherently expensive project; comparable HSR lines on technical grounds might be the one from France to Spain or the almost-all-tunneled Italian line. And the Channel Tunnel itself isn’t even “high speed” by European standards (making the lack of a high-speed line on the English side when the route opened particularly noticeable), so I’m not even sure it qualified as an HSR route when it first opened.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    There’s no language barrier at opposite anchors of the route. Its not like we are talking about a HSR corridor from New York to Georgia, here.

    VBobier Reply:

    I would think some people hired in the right positions would be able to speak both English and French.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    What does “hired in the right positions” have to do with the well established language barrier effect in intercity transport demand?

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Um, why? The HSRA’s incompetence is a matter of high construction and operating costs; the impact on ridership of decisions like Pacheco vs. Altamont is on the margins.

    VBobier Reply:

    Growing pains and lack of staff, Van Ark seems to have effected that some, Now He just needs to hold the line on costs and keep the rails at ground level(known as at Grade) except where needed and not for Political Reasons like Nimbys, I’m in favor of pushing through and condemning properties, But only with fair market compensation, No more than that either, Caltrans could help and being under Caltrans a competent & a practical ROW could be acquired, the CHSRA hiring European HSR consultants is good, Did Caltrans do anything like that? Probably not. The European Consultants expertise is required as was a certain Prussian General that volunteered His services to the Colonial Army under General George Washington. Both the HSR & General Washington need(or needed in the case of the General) experienced people and Europe is one of the places to get them from.

    Drunk Engineer Reply:

    Let’s list some of Eurostar’s problems:
    1. TSA-style security barriers
    2. Not connected network, with limited destinations
    3. Airline-level ticket pricing (what CHSRA euphemistically calls 83% airline pricing level)
    4. Regulatory red tape

    Sound familiar?

    BTW, issues #1 and #2 are related. Eurostar was originally intended to serve most of the European captials, not just Paris/Amsterdam/Brussels. But the high cost of special-purpose stations with international passport control for few trains per day wasn’t cost-effective, so the operating plan was scaled way back.

    Now let’s compare to CHSRA problems:
    1. Security theater / expensive, HSR-only stations
    2. Not connected network, just single line that bypasses East Bay, Sacramento, etc.
    3. Airline ticket pricing
    4. FRA regulatory red tape

    Sound familiar?

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Eurostar has unusually long security theater, but other HSR systems (Spain, China) have some security, which is short and unintrusive. It remains to be seen what the TSA will do. I’m only mildly pessimistic at this stage.

    Eurostar’s network may not be connected, but that’s not by itself going to make it underperform relative to city population. London and Paris are big and transit-oriented, and London-Paris should generate more traffic than all the city pairs comprising the LGV Sud-Est combined.

    The ticket pricing is a problem, but Eurostar is not the only HSR with expensive tickets. The AVE has premium pricing, and still gets much more ridership relative to city size. And again, we don’t know yet what the price will be on CAHSR; the politicians responsible to the planning boondoggles will be dead by the time the operator decides on pricing.

    The regulatory red tape increases costs; it doesn’t by itself reduce ridership. If trains are as unreliable as Amtrak then ridership will go down somewhat, but not by the degrees needed to make the project fail.

    neville snark Reply:

    The Eurostar ticket price is not so bad – London-Paris from £39 ($58) purchased a month in advance to about £110 purchased for immediate travel. Flying with a ticket booked a day in advance is about £120. I know, I live here (there)!

    thatbruce Reply:

    Eurostar has unusually long security theater,

    As has been stated before, and as will need to be stated again, the security theater surrounding the Eurostar cross-channel service is focused around passport control, an issue which CAHSR will not have.

    This is because the UK is not part of the European Schengen Area.

    Drunk Engineer Reply:

    The regulatory red tape increases costs; it doesn’t by itself reduce ridership.

    No, red tape means that certain routes aren’t run, period.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Is someone from Santa Rosa going to drive down to the Transbay Terminal to catch the train?

    In an ideal world they would just get on the train in Santa Rosa but this isn’t an ideal world. They’ll get to the HSR station the same way they get to San Francisco – the Transbay Terminal will have a very plush bus terminal hovering over the trains. Or they’ll take the airport shuttle bus to the airport and get on HSR there.

    Eric M Reply:

    I agree. Yes, people from Santa Rosa will drive down and catch the train. People forget that there is a need to drive to SFO anyways and the convenience of riding the trains is sooooooo much better. Might as well drive to the closest HSR station instead of the airport. I have ridden the ICE and TGV and would pick them over air travel any day.

    Mike Jones Reply:

    SFO is surrounded by parking, many CAHSR stops will be in “smart growth” locations- read downtown.

    Eric M Reply:

    That is still not a deterrent. Travel by train is much more pleasant and that ultimately trumps parking issues.

    wu ming Reply:

    that area you call “not much,” between the bay area and LA, has around 3 million people within a short drive of the stations on the route. when the extension to sac is eventually built out, it’ll be close to 6 million, smaller than the bay area but not by as much as people assume. drawing a HSR line that connects 80-90% of the state’s population is a good thing.

    and that’s not even getting into how nice it will be to have an electrified high speed train when we’re post-peak oil and declining fast.

    Joe A. Reply:

    Thank you, well said. I might add that air fares are very expensive out of the SJ Valley too. When I drive along highway 99, I see drivers in the fast lane going 70 – 80 MPH, all right on top of each other in a pack, I am always aghast at seeing this; add in the huge freight trucks – highway 99 gives me the creeps. HSR is absolutely a better way.

    We have got to get away from this 1950′s mentality where the highway is the only way. HSR is crucial.

    Joe A. Reply:

    Also like it or not, the SJ Valley is California’s future growth area with a very young population. Future growth in California will not be in LA or the bay area, it will be in the SJ Valley. But critics and naysayers of HSR act as if the SJ Valley should be ignored, and that only LA and the bay area matter.

    morris brown Reply:

    @Joe A.

    You just posted absolute nonsense

    “Future growth in California will not be in LA or the bay area”

    with regards population growth in the Bay area. I suggest you do at least just a bit of homework before you start typing.

    Joe Reply:

    Why is the bay area going to lose a US Rep?

    Population shift to the central valley.

    NIMBYs don’t get it.

    You can shut the door on development and transportation and still lead.

    How many new house holds were added in e last ten years for San Mateo Co?

    Joe A. Reply:

    Look at the latest census figures, it is all there.

    VBobier Reply:

    Yep, Just like California will be a lot Bluer politically…

    synonymouse Reply:

    Hard to predict with certainty. The better part of population increase in California is due to immigration and immigrants tend to be conservative. Besides the old guard of the Burton political machine are at the last hurrah and the understudies don’t measure up.

    And labor is in bad shape. It is getting nowhere organizing where it is really needed, like retail chains like Target and Gap, who treat their employees terribly but featherbeds where it is entrenched like BART and Muni. Makes for very bad public image.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    immigrants tend to be conservative

    You must be so technically advanced, posting from another galaxy in real time.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    <em.immigrants tend to be conservative

    Immigrants vote for people selling the American Dream wrapped up in Flag with a side of Apple Pie. They don’t vote for the purported conservative frothing at the mouth about the Catholic Menadce.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    ….Menace…

    Nathanael Reply:

    Immigrants are often conservative in some ways, but they’re not at all attracted to the “movement conservatives” who hate high speed rail.

    Mike Jones Reply:

    The “not much” refers to the I-5 route, the most direct route. HSR works best with isolated major cities, as in France or Spain, where a single station can serve the conurbation.

    Fresno is a well justified diversion, just as Lille was chosen over the direct Amiens route for the Eurostar. However, these “diversions” cost time and are very expensive if they penetrate the downtown- just as was done in Lille and is planned in Fresno.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Perhaps if Caltrans takes over the CHSRA the use of freeway property may be more on the table. I continue to believe that Van Ark and his engineers are aware of the I-5 median option and do have an idea of the order of savings involved. So either the savings just aren’t that impressive or I-5 is actually stashed away as the doomsday option, much to the 99 foamers’ chagrin.

    thatbruce Reply:

    AB3034, as passed, has an emphasis on connecting the state’s major population centers, including those in the Central Valley. I-5, as it passes through the Central Valley, does not pass through any of the state’s major population centers (Sacramento is mentioned separately), and hence, is not a suitable route that meets the requirements set out. Having a number of spur lines from I-5 to the population centers in the Central Valley would also not meet the requirements, as that would have a highly-detrimental effect on trips within the Central Valley.

    Here is the relevant excerpt from the original:


    2704.04. (a) It is the intent of the Legislature by enacting this
    chapter and of the people of California by approving the bond
    measure pursuant to this chapter to initiate the construction of a
    high-speed train system that connects the San Francisco Transbay
    Terminal to Los Angeles Union Station and Anaheim, and links the
    state’s major population centers, including Sacramento, the San
    Francisco Bay Area, the Central Valley, Los Angeles, the Inland
    Empire, Orange County, and San Diego consistent with the authority’s
    certified environmental impact reports of November 2005 and July 9,
    2008.

    synonymouse Reply:

    The kitchen sink approach of AB3034 was a mistake. They should have concentrated on a simpler and cheaper starter model but which nevertheless incorporated the essential mountain crossing, namely Tejon.

    Of course that might still effectively occur, given the dearth of funding.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Fresno’s not going to be unreasonably expensive to reach downtown, because unlike the NIMBY cities, Fresno clearly seems to *want* the HSR station, so they’re willing to demolish buildings and rebuild roads and generally rearrange things to make room for it mostly at grade. This makes it cheaper. There’s a reason the Fresno aerial could be eliminated, and it is first and foremost Fresno’s *attitude*.

    VBobier Reply:

    Let Me guess, This 7.5-7.9 million figure doesn’t include Tourists and other riders?

    BruceMcF Reply:

    Of the Bay Area populations, 3.2m live in the SF-Oakland urban area, most of the SF peninsula and a strip of land in the east bay facing the Peninsula, and 1.6m live in the SJ urban area, a blob of population at the neck of the SF peninsula. Most of that population can get to prospective HSR stations now, and by 2020 it’ll be even easier.

    The big massive crisis question between Altamont and Pacheco is whether to “force” that population in the southeastern part of the SF urban area to either go across a Dumbarton bridge to mid-Peninsula or down the bay coast to SJ, or to “force” that population at the neck of the peninsula to go up to mid-Pensinula or up the bay coast to Fremont. The fact is that both are workable, which is why it is simply not the massive crisis question that both sides try to inflate it into in the normal internet forum “hyperventilation race”.

    And people in the smaller sub-1m population centers in the Bay will get to the HSR like they presently get to an airport, except that by 2020 for many of that that would be a bus to TBT and some form of train to the airport, while if they are taking the HSR, when they hit the TBT they will already be at the HSR station.

    Joe Reply:

    Commuters in the East Bay want a bridge built and Not-BART rail service added to improve their commute to jobs in the SV.

    Joey Reply:

    I’m really not sure what you’re getting at. There’s very little that’s forceful – most people will have a convenient station under Altamont, and there’s little reason why they wouldn’t use it.

    Eric M Reply:

    “The Bay Area with 7.5 million population”

    Pretty amazing that with only 7.5 million BART attracts 100+ million rides a year!!

  18. StevieB
    May 12th, 2011 at 11:02
    #18

    Fresno sees the LAO report as a political attack on the central valley. A Fresno Bee editorial calls for the project to serve transportation needs and not become a political fight.

    The Valley route makes much more sense to establish the high-speed train, and work out engineering issues before moving on to areas of higher population densities. But the LAO report appeared to be more of a thinly veiled excuse to kill the high-speed rail project than sincere recommendations to improve the 800-mile system. We expected much more out of the LAO’s office than a political document to undermine the project.

    Fresno Mayor Ashley Swearengin sees the report recommendations cutting the Valley out of funding as she says it is for so many other programs that emanate from the Legislature.

    synonymouse Reply:

    On the other hand the Oakland Tribune has long editorialized that hsr be dumped and the funding be given to BART.

    Jack Reply:

    That’s because the north and the south like to pretend the CV doesn’t exist. Like they can just wish us away with our 20% unemployment rate. HSR is the single best thing this state and this country can do. They got this right back in the 30′s, will we have to wait until 2030 for them to get it right again.

    California’s said very vocally we want HSR! It’s time for our leadership to remember that.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Opinion has steadily shifted away from hsr and the federal economic stimulus. It is lucky for us the euro is in such bad shape. Odds are very strong we are headed to a UK style austerity.

    Peter Reply:

    Based on your personal intuition? Any facts to back up your, as usual, ridiculous comments?

    synonymouse Reply:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/43009299

    VBobier Reply:

    That means nothing, I’d rather have FDR type economics than putrid Hoover style austerity any day… austerity can be stuffed up where the sun doesn’t shine for all I care, In other words, KMA.

    Beta Magellan Reply:

    We’re getting FDR-type economics right now–an initial boost in spending followed by cuts in expenditures plus misguided action from the Fed (causing the 1937-38 recession).

    Spokker Reply:

    Correct. The New Deal was a bunch of bullshit in the end. They didn’t go through with it and freaked out halfway through.

    Spokker Reply:

    Hoover was a better Keynesian than FDR.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Conditions are profoundly different today than in 1933. FDR took over as the international economic order was in shambles, worse than today. He had to contend with an extremely dangerous and burgeoning fascist political movement but to the good side there was no enormous accumulated national debt like today. He moved to the left on bread and butter economic issues but veered to the right on social issues. He lifted Prohibition, a nanny concept akin to the anti tobacco or anti junk food hysteria of today, and he installed the Hays commission to censor Hollywood. Unlike today FDR was careful to avoid any hint of frivolity or licentiousness at the top when the general population was struggling to get by.

    Roosevelt had to sit by and do nothing while Germany and Italy were pouring aid to Franco and the Spanish Republic was crushed. It took a direct attack on the U.S. to bring about an alliance with the Soviet Union. As it was, we almost lost the war.

    So no comparison with today’s circumstances. There was nothing populist about Hoover – he would be a TARP guy like Poulson today.

    Spokker Reply:

    Awesome.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    we almost lost the war.

    In which alternate universe?

    synonymouse Reply:

    You better believe it. We got lucky. The aircraft carriers had left Pearl the day before. We nailed the Japanese fleet at Leyte because we knew where they were. We shot the wad on the bomb and it worked.

    Meantime the Germans had developed guided missiles and jet aircraft but lagged behind on nuclear. You have to wonder if Heisenberg had held back. And of course we plucked Neils Bohr outta there.

    Hitler fortunately made many mistakes, probably the worst of which was a front in the east before the invasion of Britain.

    Even as late as 1944, after the Normandy invasion, the allies resolved to start attacking civilians directly, as distasteful as that was, because the war was dragging on and they were afraid the Germans could have a change of fortune.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    We got lucky in the sense that we had the manpower and the natural resources to win the war.
    It was a matter of which way we were going to win the war not if we were going to win the waqr.

    Spokker Reply:

    Awesome. Just awesome. Awesome posts.

    Spokker Reply:

    Day after day, his trolling expertise never ceases to amaze. I thought I knew how to troll, but this guy is in another league entirely. I can’t even out-troll him because I am in such awe at all of the claims, exaggerations and other shit that doesn’t make any sense.

    And there’s just so much of it too. I mean, few of us can claim we’ve never made an outrageous claim or exaggerated something, but this guy’s posts are like rapid fire bullshit of which I have never seen before.

    Do you post on any other subjects? I would love to hear this style of posting but for, say, consumer electronics or the law.

    synonymouse Reply:

    A couple years ago PBS did a documentary on the late war in Europe detailing how a divided allied command came to the decision to attack civilian targets, which they had avoided up to that point. I was surprised – my military history is lacking – that the Germans had progressed so far with the Messerschmidt jet. Of course everyone knows about the V-1′s and V-2′s. The point was made that the Russians were bogged down in Poland so the allies decided to make life hell for the ordinaryh Germans to hurry the end of the war.

    You pick up little interesting details as the years roll by. I saw an item the other day that revealed that Yamamoto had gone to Harvard. The world really is run by a tiny elite.

    Spokker Reply:

    Today I derailed a thread about the video game Rock Band and then they closed the thread because of me and I wasn’t even the original poster. It felt good, but I still feel like a lesser troll than synonymouse.

    synonymouse Reply:

    Well, I did not mean to derail the post. FDR certainly was no angel, but he took so much undeserved flack from the Republicans that I had to come to his defense.

    The country was fortunate to have someone of his stature and insight at that crucial period. A weaker and more impressionable person, like the Edward who abdicated, might have been charmed by Hitler and his movement. The country was way behind Roosevelt in foreign affairs and he had to wait for them to catch up.

    Nathanael Reply:

    “FDR took over as the international economic order was in shambles, worse than today.”
    Just wait.

    “He had to contend with an extremely dangerous and burgeoning fascist political movement”
    So do we. They call themselves “Republican leadership” in this country.

    “but to the good side there was no enormous accumulated national debt like today”
    Yes, there was. Look it up.

  19. D. P. Lubic
    May 12th, 2011 at 16:20
    #19

    In other news, comments by the Infrastructurist on the Grapevine route:

    http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/05/12/california-considers-new-route-for-high-speed-rail/#comments

  20. D. P. Lubic
    May 12th, 2011 at 17:08
    #20

    In other news, comments by the Infrastructurist on the Grapevine route:

    http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/05/12/california-considers-new-route-for-high-speed-rail/#comments

    (Special note to moderator: had to reenter my e-mail address, and goofed it up; feel free to eliminate the earlier duplicate post.)

  21. TOMCV
    May 12th, 2011 at 17:36
    #21

    Of Topic,
    Galgiani released this statement in response to the Legislative Analyst’s Office report.

    Read more: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2011/05/11/1887886/lao-report-ill-informed.html#ixzz1MBjP5PIp

    joe Reply:

    I just spoke with US Rep Mike Honda about HSR – I got lucky.

    He’s aware of the LAO report but not the specifics, he was not informed of Eschoo’s Menlo Park Press release, He think the current building in the Central Valley segment makes sense.

    He praised Gilroy for their proactive and cooperative approach with HSR – aware of the impact.

    He’s fully committed to build HSR – it fits with his proposals to use infrastructure investments to produce jobs and reduce the deficit.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    Excellent. Thanks for calling. We’ve met with Rep. Honda’s staff and they are well-informed about the issues. Glad to see them seeing through the B.S.

    joe Reply:

    It was a town hall meeting so he selected the question. That speaks to his interest.

    He needs ot get more info about the LAO opinion.

    Also, while I have your attention, HSR ARRA funding is not moveable – the law and the administration’s implementation for projects are very rigid.

    The DOT has unique requirements for the funding’s use, reporting and monitoring of progress. The rules are rigid so any LAO suggestion we move or re-plan the money is utter nonsense.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    Unless they would just plan on using ARRA to rebuild some of the San Joaquin route along the Santa Fe and in Fresno for 110 mph service I doubt the DOT would let California keep the money and would yank it… that would be even more stupid than Florida and Wisconsin, Ohio combined as we actually have that much money in our hands and let it all blow away.

Comments are closed.