Anti-HSR Activism is a Rich Man’s Movement

Apr 4th, 2011 | Posted by

When it comes to rich and powerful, it’s not easy to beat Alain C. Enthoven. He served as a Deputy Secretary of Defense under Robert S. McNamara during the 1960s. He was a professor at Stanford and is now an emeritus professor there as well. He lives an Atherton and owns a home with an estimated value of at least $2.7 million dollars. Oh sure, there are richer people out there, and more powerful people out there. But let’s be clear. Enthoven wants for nothing. He has built a privileged life for himself. Which is to his credit.

Still, it doesn’t necessarily make him an expert on what is best for the middle class. Especially when it comes to high speed rail. Enthoven, as we know, is not a neutral observer on the topic. He lives about a block from the Caltrain tracks in Atherton, a railroad that was built 100 years before he served in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. Enthoven has a material interest in killing a high speed rail project that he is convinced will undermine his property values. Enthoven lent his name to a flawed study that tried to put an academic face on NIMBYism – but as he explained in a comment on the revised program EIR for the high speed rail project, his primary worry is – and I quote:

An elevated railway would be hideous and intolerably noisy. We like to eat outdoors in the summer, but with such noise we would not be able to hear each other talking. And it would wake people at night. It would transform our pleasant semi-rural environment into an ugly urban environment.

We have consulted with a local real estate broker who has 34 years of experience and knows our neighborhood well. In her judgement, even the hint of HSR becoming reality is causing a 10-15% drop in real estate values. When or if the train actually materializes, prices will drop 25-30%. That will reduce assessed values and local tax revenues. We are counting on our property value sometime in the next 10 years to pay for a retirement home and to help with the college education of our grandchildren.

Enthoven isn’t concerned about the rest of us poor schlubs, who struggle to pay our bills and watch helplessly as college becomes unaffordable for ourselves and our families, who see gas prices soar, who see government scaling back stimulus and now even basic programs in the name of giving more money to rich people like Enthoven. Nobody in the middle class owns a home worth $2.7 million, most aren’t expecting to buy a retirement home, and few expect to be able to pay for their grandchildren’s college education.

Our earlier criticisms of Enthoven as being a privileged NIMBY must have stung, because he’s out this week with a new report attacking HSR – this time on the basis of it somehow hurting the middle class.

If the ancient world knew to “beware Greeks bearing gifts,” 21st century California should know to “beware rich people offering advice to the middle class.” Enthoven doesn’t care about the actual needs of the middle class. They only matter as far as they can help him preserve his property values, his ability to buy a retirement home, and his ability to enjoy a meal out on his patio (which, it should be noted, will be made easier by grade-separating the tracks and eliminating the horns).

Especially because, as we see in this report, Enthoven has once again put his name to a bunch of flawed and indefensible statements. HSR critics apparently cannot rely on factual arguments, so they have to make up their own facts – and distort others. Let’s have a look.

Will The Train Be Where My Family Can Use It? – The project scheduled to start at the end of 2012; from north of Fresno towards Bakersfield will not have riders. That’s because the State and Federal governments plan to spend over $5Billion to build a track bed in the Central Valley without a locomotive, passenger car or electrification. So the answer for at least the next five to seven years is definitely no.

Well, by that logic, we shouldn’t have started the Interstate Highway System in 1956, because it wasn’t finished for decades.

If the government assembles $66Billion to build the Anaheim/Los Angeles to San Jose to San Francisco project, it is supposed to benefit all Californians. However, if you are among the 7 million residents north of that route you aren’t likely to drive south to use the train. Ditto for the 3.2 million residents to the south and east of the route, and the 1.7 million in the coastal counties.

Note the assertion – undefined and unexplained – that the project will cost $66 billion. There is no firm basis to believe that number; it’s a scare tactic being used by the opposition. They plucked that number out of thin air, and are willfully ignoring the value engineering the CHSRA is now undertaking. But they like to define a lie as truth and then make assumptions based on that “truth.”

The rest of this paragraph is pretty flawed. It assumes no connecting rail service will ever be delivered to other residents – and in fact ignores the connecting service, such as BART and the Capitol Corridor, that already exists. Not everyone will drive to those stations, no. But a hell of a lot of people will get there.

Still, this is setting up the next set of arguments – that Californians shouldn’t have to pay for a train nobody will use. As we’ll see, that’s simply ridiculous.

Will My Family Be Able To Afford To Ride The Train? – The California High-Speed Rail Authority (CHSRA) said in 2008 that the cost of a one-way ticket between Los Angeles and San Francisco would be $55. By the end of 2009, that one-way fare had risen to $105.5

Which is still cheaper than flying – but they do not mention airfares anywhere at all. A notable omission, designed to bias the “study.”

If you drive that 407 miles, and use the standard deduction the Federal government allows for business trips by car, your total cost would be $206.6 That puts a round-trip at $412, including all the costs of owning the auto; that is, fuel, taxes, insurance, amortization, depreciation, etc. Only counting gasoline costs at $4.50/gallon, the round trip would be about $200.

That’s assuming 2011 conditions remain constant forever. As we know, they won’t. By 2020 fuel prices will be much higher than they are today – unless demand destruction occurs. That demand destruction will come in one of two forms – either people don’t take those trips, or they use more affordable options such as electric trains.

The denial of reality and ignorance of planning shines through here as well:

For the family to ride the train it will cost $840 round trip, twice as much as the total cost of driving and four times the gasoline costs. You’ll also have to rent a car when you get to San Francisco or Disneyland, adding another $45- $65/day even for a compact. The same is true if you’re not going the entire length of the route. If you’re going only to where it stops, the trip may take less time, but can your family afford the extra costs?

The family won’t “have to” rent a car at all. SF is well-served by public transit today. And the ARTIC station in Anaheim will be close to Disneyland, which will provide some kind of connecting service that does not require a separate car rental.

Their next question is “Will There Be A Job For Someone In My Family To Build Or Operate The Train?” That’s a flawed way to frame the matter if ever there was one. Most Californians won’t be hired to build or operate the train. But that economic activity – as a economics prof like Enthoven knows very well – will create other jobs that WILL employ middle-class Californians. The construction jobs alone will add tax income to state and local governments, helping to sustain vital services. That’s how “stimulus” works. But in their self-interested zeal to attack the project, Enthoven and the other authors are reduced to parroting Tea Party arguments.

We can see that in their next section, a completely specious and flawed argument that the train will cause taxes to soar and services to be slashed:

Will It Cost Me More In Taxes To Support The Train? – A $66Billion Phase One construction cost doubles the State’s long-term debt. To help pay that off, your middle income California family will pay 8-11% above the $1,300 in State income tax you already pay. That’s an unannounced $100-$140 annual tax increase. And the more you earn, the larger bite of your income that 8-11% takes.

The lies are flying thick and fast now. Not only have they failed to prove (or even explain) the $66 billion cost claim, they’re falsely assuming the cost will be borne solely by the state of California. It won’t. California voters already approved $10 billion. The other $33 billion (of a total project cost of $43 billion) come from the federal government and the private sector.

Of course, if for some reason California did decide to spend more and decided to raise taxes to do it, we could always tax the rich to do that. Notice, of course, that the wealthy Enthoven does not mention it as an option (shocking, I know). And of course, Californians could well decide that even if the costs soared, that it was worth paying $100 more a year to help build a train that people want to ride, that enables economic growth, helps our environment and reduces our dependence on expensive foreign oil.

But Enthoven isn’t done on this question yet. Not by a longshot:

There’s even more downside. History teaches us that nowhere in the world does a high-speed rail system collect its entire operating costs from riders. It’s impossible to know precisely what passengers will bring to the fare box. But it’s not impossible to be skeptical about the CHSRA’s claims that, on average, nearly every Californian will ride the train every year and the CHSR operator will collect all of the relatively high fares all the time. So, you must assume that your family is exposed for even more, probably substantial annual income taxes, to pay creditors’ in order to subsidize the operations.

This is complete nonsense. Bald-faced lies being promoted under the cover of a prominent academic. Most HSR systems DO indeed cover their operating cost from riders, including Amtrak’s Acela. Here you also see the core argument of the anti-HSR forces – that “nobody in California will ride trains” reappearing. No matter how often we show them that around the world and even here in the US that HSR is massively popular with riders, the opponents refuse to acknowledge that truth. Nor can they – they’re motivated by self-interest.

All the while, your State Government is collecting less in taxes to pay for education, police or other services from its middle class’ shrinking incomes. You could choose to pay these taxes as-you-go. Or you could create more State debt that puts off the day of reckoning for your children to face. And this for a train you may not be near enough to use and can’t afford to ride.

Or we could raise taxes on the wealthy and not worry about it. Again, Enthoven refuses to consider that option.

The “study” closes with this doom-and-gloom scenario:

To continue the virtuous cycle that has fueled California’s growth and provided long-term jobs, your taxes would have to increase, more debt created or choices made to cut present State spending on other programs. What will benefit the next generations more: a world-class education system, or the profits of a few engineering, equipment, software and train-operating companies? Choosing the later might bring California a train your family may not be near enough to use or afford to ride; raise your State taxes, cut essential services like police and cripple California’s education system that sustained its virtuous cycle. That threatens the kids’ future.

Of course, that future is already being threatened – right now – and not by high speed rail, but by state budget cuts that are happening because California politicians refuse to do what 78% of Californians want and tax the rich to close the gap.

But we can, and must, say more. I’m from a middle-class California family, and am still middle-class myself. So I am much better qualified to speak on this issue than a wealthy former Pentagon official.

California’s middle class is suffering because the rich have taken our money and are leaving us to face the problems caused by soaring gas prices without any alternative. Enthoven never has to worry about affording to fly or drive wherever he wants to go, whenever he wants to go. The rest of us do. And as gas prices pass the $4/gallon mark, that reality bites hard for most middle-class Californians.

That’s why a majority of California voters approved the $10 billion in HSR bonds in 2008. Gas prices soared and the middle class immediately understood: their future lay with electric passenger trains. Enthoven and the rest of the HSR opponents have never accepted this truth, and believe they can somehow snap voters out of this “delusion” – not stopping to think that voters knew damn well what they were doing in November 2008 when they voted for Prop 1A.

California’s middle class will vanish if it is not liberated from dependence on oil. It’s that simple. High speed rail helps that happen. It has saved money and created jobs all over the world and it will do so here in California. It won’t save the middle class alone, obviously, but it’s a necessary part of the solution.

So is taxing the rich. And that’s what this is really about. Enthoven isn’t just worried about his own property value (which if anything will rise when the loud horns and diesel fumes are gone). He is worried about us middle class folks coming after his money and his assets. And he should be worried. We need things like high speed rail, affordable and quality college education, universal health care, and government-funded job creation programs if the middle class is to survive. Enthoven doesn’t dare mention the idea of taxing the rich in his “report” because if he did, he’d undercut his entire argument.

Enthoven doesn’t care about the middle class. He only cares about himself. California’s middle class saw right through similarly specious arguments in November 2008. They did so again when Enthoven’s fellow Atherton resident, the mega-rich and anti-HSR Meg Whitman, got crushed in the November 2010 election. Now Enthoven is reduced to making stuff up and distorting the truth to try and convince middle class Californians to somehow undercut their own economic interest in favor of his own.

It won’t work. But it’s still good to push back against this nonsense anyway. We can never rest until the trains are built and operating.

  1. Spokker
    Apr 4th, 2011 at 22:38
    #1

    This has been posted before, but HSR noise impact video from Germany: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-7Chrx-sX8

    Especially enlightening are the comparisons of freight and airplane noise to HSR noise.

    AndyDuncan Reply:

    And that’s light electric freight on well-maintained track.

  2. JJJ
    Apr 4th, 2011 at 23:00
    #2

    I enjoy how anti-HSR arguments always do the following:

    State that ridership projections are unreliable. It’s so far away, how can anyone possibly guess what the ridership will be!

    BUT then they take the fare number as a fact. It’s amazing how 10 years away, they can predict the fare so accurately, and assume that it’s like a local bus, in which the fare is always the same for any distance. Protip: If going from Sf to LA costs $105.5, going from SF to Fresno will cost less (unlike with planes, where its the opposite!)

    So what is it, are predictions reliable or not? Can’t have it both ways.
    AND
    If ridership is poor, guess what, fares drop to attract more riders!

    Many of these anti-HSR arguments are from people who simply dont understand rail. They dont understand demand pricing, and they dont understand the types of riders. Why on earth would anyone rent a car in san francisco? They also always think of it as terminus-to-terminus ridership, like planes. They “forget” the 10 stops along the way, and all the corresponding station pairings.

    Andre Peretti Reply:

    “Many of these anti-HSR arguments are from people who simply dont understand rail”
    Or maybe they understand it too well. These rich people have certainly travelled abroad. They also read business media and know that HSR, while not always covering construction costs, always makes an operating profit. They don’t doubt it will be successful, so they are trying to kill it in the cradle.

    thatbruce Reply:

    Let’s try one of Alain’s paragraphs with a one-word change:

    For the family to ride the plane it will cost $840 round trip, twice as much as the total cost of driving and four times the gasoline costs. You’ll also have to rent a car when you get to San Francisco or Disneyland, adding another $45-$65/day even for a compact. The same is true if you’re
    not going the entire length of the route. If you’re going only to where it stops, the trip may take less time, but can your family afford the extra costs?

    A lot of his arguments could also be applied to travel by plane; few locations where you can board, few locations where you can disembark, inability to take your car with you, more expensive than driving as you add more people, and doesn’t employ that many people compared to the state population. Ho hum.

    joe Reply:

    Yep – Professor’s analysis also shows air travel between major CA cities is not viable, not economical, a sure money loser.

    VBobier Reply:

    Rent a car in SF? Why? Riding a cable car or walking(for those that can) are doable outside of a few steep hills(As SF is definitely not as flat as I’m used to), I may not have ever lived any farther north than Tulare, Although with My parents I did visit SF on our way north back in 1971. Lots of ignorance peddling is at work here I think, a divide and conquer strategy, In essence FUD for a lot of Elmers.

  3. Alex M.
    Apr 4th, 2011 at 23:15
    #3

    Wow. What a selfish idiot.

    Donk Reply:

    With quality people like this serving under Robert McNamara, you have to wonder how it is possible that we got ourselves into the Vietnam War. I hope he doesn’t use the word boondoggle to describe HSR. He is partially responsible for one of the biggest boondoggles of all time.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    A NIMBY is a NIMBY is a NIMBY. No matter they are a PhD or not… this is now the new tactic to attack high speed rail… it’s going to hurt the middle class it’s destroying agricultural jobs on and on with this BS out of these people’s mouths.. look at the Reason foundations PhDs the garbage that comes out of that propaganda machine… they’re a lot more interesting things to talk about like the 2011 budget resolution… today the rebubs in the house propose another continuing resolution for another week and this one contains a 1.5 billion cut for high-speed rail is must be referring to the 2011 money

    joe Reply:

    NIMBY-PIMBY.

    He has a financial conflict of interest – his home.

    According to NSF review policy, he would be disqualified from reviewing the HSR business plan and etc.

    VBobier Reply:

    That’s cause Alain C. Enthoven may be suffering from Prejudiced against new ideas by basing His fears on old info that does not apply or applies very weakly, If at all that is. He seems to be severely misinformed to the extreme, I think My cat would be no better, But then She’s as oblivious as He seems to be.

  4. Leroy W. Demery, Jr
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 02:32
    #4

    Alain Enthoven has told one or more apparent whoppers.

    In “The Financial Risks of California’s Proposed High-Speed Rail Project,” he, Grindley and Warren wrote that “Over seventy Principal Reviewers have read the report and agree with the Authors’ findings and endorse their conclusions” (page 10).

    Untrue, and impossible. One of the persons on the list died 14 years ago. Ages of the “living” range up to 97; that particular individual might also be deceased (online searches don’t always reveal this).

    Another person – the only one without a residence or business location in the Bay Area – is James E. Moore II, a University of Southern California professor and well-known anti-rail fanatic. Whatever else he might be, Moore is not a “prominent local business leader.”

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    “One of the persons on the list died 14 years ago.”–Leroy W. Demery, Jr.

    Maybe Mr. Enthoven knows a really good spiritual medium!

    Seance, anyone?

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    If any of us tried telling such whoppers, we would be laughed out of town.

    How do these guys get away with it?

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Wrong. When we tell the truth, we get laughed out of town.

    morris brown Reply:

    Leroy Demery Jr. made some pretty outrageous comments with regards three of the reviewers of the ““The Financial Risks of California’s Proposed High-Speed Rail Project,”

    Mr. Demery does not speak the truth. Having just contacted the authors, all reviewers were personally contacted. So your claim that one has been dead for 14 years is a lie. I note you didn’t name which reviewer you claim have been dead for 14 years.

    Mr. Moore, is a transportation heavy weight, and on the board of the Mineta Institute (where Rod Diridon is an executive)

    Finally,your comments regarding Alan Enthoven doesn’t even deserve a comment.

    If you can’t do anything better than issue personal attacks on the reviewer’s, you shouldn’t comment. You should apologize, but I’m not holding my breath.

    Eric M Reply:

    If you can’t do anything better than SPAM anti-HSR stuff and not respond to questions about your post, you shouldn’t post at all!!

    YesonHSR Reply:

    Really…what gall Brown..did you take Enthoven out for dinner..

    joe Reply:

    Alan Enthoven has a F’n conflict of interest Morris. Any academic review panel would send him and his awesome credentials packing out the door.

    If he were a lowly Gov employee, he’d be at risk for criminal charges. He’d be required to recluse himself from the review. He has a financial stake in the outcome.

    thatbruce Reply:

    While I can’t speak for whether or not Morris actually contacted the authors or whether all of the reviewers were alive at the time the document was written, it should be pointed out that it is very easy to get false positives when performing internet searches for people’s names, for example:

    Sam Bronfman (d. 1971 . Wrong one)
    Peter Carpenter (d. 1971 . also wrong)

    @Leroy W. Demery, Jr

    Without a definite name and some form of proof that a given reviewer has been dead for some time (for example, a verifiable obituary), your assertion that one of the reviewers is dead cannot be upheld. While there are many inaccuracies in the report, attacking it in a way which can be easily refuted isn’t good practice.

    Leroy W. Demery, Jr Reply:

    You shall read about this on http://www.publictransit.us – in due course.

    And, “morris brown,” you shall get your apology – if, and only if, you demonstrate (reasonably) – that I did in fact “lie” – that I stated something that I knew, or believed to be, false.

  5. Brandon from San Diego
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 06:31
    #5

    I lived in Walnut Creek for 5 years and 800 feet from BART tracks. My place was on Trinity Avenue. The nearby track alignment had a curve and was elevated. At the location, trains were either arriving or departing the WC BARTstation and either acceleration or decelerating. I believe there was also a grade. Granted, it is probably not an apples to apples comparison, but probably close enough.

    I never grew tired or annoyed at the sounds from the train. I often left my patio door open often listened for the music. As I recall, I also used the sound to tell Meehan it was time to leave to catch a train to San Francisco.

  6. joe
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 07:00
    #6

    Affordability:
    “If you drive that 407 miles, and use the standard deduction the Federal government allows for business trips by car, your total cost would be $206.6 ”

    Standard deduction doesn’t account for the cost to operate a vehicle.

    A family Minivan, according to non-profit consumer reports, costs .76 per mile to own and operate. Used car would be cheaper (depreciation) but less reliable.

    The analysis is bogus, if your model to invalidate train travel economics also invalidates the successful air routes. Air travel is more expensive yet Airlines have shuttle flights to/from major cities on HSR lines.

    Automobile parking is NOT free.

    Families, large ones, earning 50K a year would current take the Bus to LA, and not burn out their car or run the risk of a break down.

    thatbruce Reply:

    Standard deduction doesn’t account for the cost to operate a vehicle.

    The per-mile cost set by the Federal government (primarily to reimburse its employees for travel undertaken using their own vehicles) approximates the cost per mile to operate an average vehicle, including gas and normal wear’n'tear (semi-regular maintenance), at a given point in time. It does not cover costs towards owning the vehicle. Its also one of the few metrics that all ‘sides’ can agree on.

    joe Reply:

    Economic analysis using the standard deduction (per diem) for operating a POV (car) does NOT account for the complete cost of using the car.

    Per Diem rates are therefore NOT a accurate metric for evaluating the economic choice a family has when deciding to drive/fly/bus/train.

    Consumer reports shows it’s 0.76 per mile for a family minivan.

  7. BruceMcF
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 07:57
    #7

    This piece is overgenerous to my profession: “… as a economics prof like Enthoven knows very well …

    Many mainstream economists simply know how to manipulate the standard mathematical models of the economy, which demonstrably (witness the Panic of 2008) do not take into account all important factors affecting the economy.

    Indeed, since the mainstream became the mainstream by claiming and holding the high ground in the profession, an economist’s position within a top 20 school speaks to his likely status within the profession, but gives little reason for confidence that he can analyze a real world problem without overlooking the most important factor.

    So it is no surprise that an Emeritus Professor from Stanford would labor under the illusion that access to an all-electric local transport corridor necessarily connecting to an all-electric intercity transport corridor is something that will be ignored in determining property values in 10 years time.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    I don’t know, some professors at Princeton and Berkeley analyze the real world very well.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Yes. There is a minority of economics professors who know what they’re doing.

    The subject has unfortunately been infested with ideologues who really don’t know what they’re doing. In fact, the Koch Brothers have actually funded some of this IIRC; I know Scaife has. They’ve become a large enough group to generate their own groupthink even after their line of “research” turns out to be a useless dead end — which is a phenomenon similar to the infestation of Chomskyites in linguistics departments, of string theorists in physics departments, or of deconstructionists in English departments. (Deconstructionist novels are fun, but it’s not a sensible *philosophy of analysis*.) The difference in economics is that unlike these other fads, there’s a powerful lobby of rich people trying to keep the dead-enders going.

    Which is unfortunate. Academic economics has actually been breaking amazing new ground in recent years with both the behavioral economists and the economic game theorists making major research breakthroughs; and in a more traditional vein, Modern Monetary Theory and Neo-Keynesianism have both been proving useful.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    MMT and modern Keynesianism are nothing alike. Yes, the former try to leech off of the better reputation of the latter, but at the end MMT is somewhere between Austrianism and supply-side economics – more of a cover for political policy than serious economic analysis.

    Scaife and Olin fund some academic chairs, yes. I’m less sure about Scaife, but Olin’s people are well-known as hacks – for example, John Lott. It has really nothing to do with how Chomskyites took over most linguistics departments, or how real business cycle theorists took over freshwater economics departments, etc.

    joe Reply:

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
    – Upton Sinclair

    joe Reply:

    He’s conflicted, a monetary conflict of interest. It’s that simple.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    The monetary conflict of interest is exaggerated by the omissions from his analysis. His property values may well lose ground relative to property further from the track, but they’ll also gain ground relative to properties in communities without the same access to oil-independent transport.

    So his analysis of his own self-interest is not only quite incomplete, but since what is included pushes property values in one direction and what is omitted pushes property values in the other, he quite clearly is overestimating the impact, and indeed could quite easily be getting the wrong sign for the overall impact. He would serve his own self-interest better fighting for a corridor design that has the least impact on residential property values on properties next to the existing rail corridor, since the smaller the relative loss relative to other properties in the local area, the greater the likelihood that the overall net impact will be positive.

  8. Ken
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 09:22
    #8

    With regards to HSR, I sometimes get to envy the Chinese “shut up or you go bye-bye” approach to getting things done… [sigh]

  9. egk
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 10:23
    #9

    “nowhere in the world does a high-speed rail system collect its entire operating costs from riders.”

    “Most HSR systems DO indeed cover their operating cost from riders, including Amtrak’s Acela.”

    Don’t be so guarded: ALL intercity HSR systems make more money than it costs to operate the trains. Most make a good deal more. Many make enough to pay back most of their cost of construction. And some make enough to pay back all of it.

    synonymouse Reply:

    If Enthoven is smart he will start calling for BART Ring the Bay to replace hsr on the Peninsula in his polemics. That way he can deflect the charge that he is anti-rail. And of course good politix as PB wins either way.

    Of course Enthoven is motivated by self-interest and has an ax to grind. Do you think PB is not entirely motivated by greed? Look at the corrupt fix it is party to in Palmdale. All is propaganda and FUD.

    Enthoven’s position papers are no more lies than the provisos and promises of Prop 1A.

    Clem Reply:

    You are 100% correct regarding the upcoming BART ring-the-bay sales strategy. This idea has such enormous latent support among the wider population (never mind the little detail that BART already bankrupted SamTrans once) that it will become irresistible, when compared to the “horror” of peninsula HSR. I think the only reason that ring-the-bay hasn’t already been heavily promoted is because (a) Caltrain and HSR might implode further on their own, without any external pressure, and (b) BART first needs to get shovels in the ground for the Berryessa and Livermore extensions. They’re not dumb, and they know when it’s better to bide their time…

    joe Reply:

    Hey, if we can 280 and 101 why not Caltrain and BART ?

    thatbruce Reply:

    All is propaganda and FUD.

    Ah, describing yourself again.

  10. Richard L. Witt
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 10:27
    #10

    You know…if I had that much money and was so wealthy…I think I’d move and let those “poor” people fend for themselves with their new toy train. There’s that new country for folks like him, what’s it called, Jherkovia…that’s as nice as I can be.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    I’m sure he could get a nice villa in a trendy exclusive suburb of the capital, Wankerton.

  11. Richard A
    Apr 5th, 2011 at 17:57
    #11

    I think he raises a very fair point – we should have a man with a white flag walking in front of the train to alert residents that the train is coming so that any expectant mothers can be ushered into a darkened room. At night, this man would carry a torch made of pine tar. Or we could re-define “high speed” as “faster than a gentleman strolling in his estate.”

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