Florida HSR Is Dead, Money Likely Headed to California
Anti-rail governor Rick Scott won his case in court this morning, as the Florida Supreme Court ruled he had the power to reject $2.4 billion in federal high speed rail funding:
The Florida Supreme Court has upheld Gov. Rick Scott’s authority to kill a proposed Orlando-Tampa high-speed rail line backed by President Barack Obama.
The justices on Friday rejected a bipartisan challenge to the Republican governor’s refusal to accept $2.4 billion in federal stimulus money for the project. The high court put the case on a fast track because U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood had given Scott until Friday to accept the money or lose it to similar projects in other states.
This is the second time in less than 10 years that a Republican governor has killed high speed rail in Florida, as Jeb Bush similarly undermined an HSR project in 2004. As gas prices soar and as traffic on Interstate 4 continues to worsen, Florida is now chaining itself to the automobile. It’s a very sad day for Florida, and I hope that Scott’s successor reverses this huge mistake and finally gets high speed rail built there.
Of course, this means that $2.4 billion is now up for grabs, and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood suggest it’s mostly going to California:
Several states, including New York and Rhode Island, have asked LaHood for Florida’s rail funds, but the only project that would achieve the high speeds associated with bullet trains in Asia and Europe would be California’s.
“I know that states across America are enthusiastic about receiving additional support to help bring America’s high-speed rail network to life and deliver all its economic benefits to their citizens,” LaHood said in a statement.
This may be a reflection of Representative John Mica’s argument that the federal government is wrong to spread its HSR funds around to non-bullet train projects. If California won most or all of the funding, it would probably get trains to Bakersfield station, and would be a big step in demonstrating the feasibility of true high speed service (150 mph and above) in the US.
Still, other states have political power, especially as House Republicans threaten to eliminate all annual HSR funding AND take back the HSR stimulus money that hasn’t already been obligated, including Florida’s $2.4 billion. So the real fight will be to stop Congress from cutting those funds, and to stop President Barack Obama from caving to those demands.
Recall Mike Rosenberg’s god-awful mercury news article on the horrible consequences of FL’s Scott refusing HSR money.
http://www.mercurynews.com/california-high-speed-rail/ci_17408689?nclick_check=1
Mike & Merc jumped the gun with their one sided analysis.
The following weeks illustrated the popular and strong bipartisan support for HSR in FL and of course here with CA’s delegation.
read the link and remember the next time the Mercury News covers HSR.
Mike Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 2:46 pm
Rosenberg’s analysis was, and remains, correct: California now has the only project going in the nation. The national GOP message is that HSR is a boondoggle, a point that is confirmed (in the GOP message strategy) by the many states who are bailing out. Congress typically likes to support programs that spread money around to many states. None of this is good news for California HSR.
Winston Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Its not as bad as you think. Remember the republicans are unlikely to keep their majority beyond January of 2013, so as long as CAHSR is funded through then (and another billion or two should more than do the trick) there will be a new congress with new priorities.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:54 am
I dearly hope that is the case…
joe Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 9:36 pm
Mike’s analysis was blinded by his prejudices. He assumed Governor Scott’s unilateral decision represented a political consensus and it that it was based on sound economic analysis. It was supposed to be bad news for the CA project.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Well It’s no wonder, Republicans today have No Guts, So No Glory, Nixon and Eisenhower had at least 100 times more Guts than those today who listen only to the lunatic fringe who in the past would have been ignored or investigated by the FBI for Subversive Activities under Hoover. And so they got the Glory, Today none of them have any of that, They’d rather have a weak Central Government, But since that can’t easily be done, It’s Defund this or Defund that and not for a little while either, But forever, Cause they have objections to their constituents and their own tax money going to this program or that program(and some inject their forbidden and hidden religious agendas like trying to cut planned parenthood cause they do legal abortions that aren’t paid for with federal money per US law), Just like Tax Evaders who were sent to Federal Prison like Al Capone have done for Years, Only these are our elected Representatives to the US Congress.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:59 pm
I should have said “Some Republicans have No Guts,”.
YesonHSR Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
maby rosenberger has heard his “owners” ideas and needs to respond as such…right Mikeyy..OOveyy
Joe Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:24 pm
RCA logo, his master’s voice.
Wonder what the state match will be this time?
I am now a routine reader of this blog. As someone who grew up in St. Petersburg, FL, I am saddened and disappointed by Rick Scott’s actions, but knew such was inevitible the night he won. Elections have consequences.
I am now concerned about the safety of CA’s HSR money and in getting CA’s HSR money to CA.
How much of CA’s HSR funding hasn’t been obligated?
How would Republicans be able to prevent the disbursement of FL’s HSR monies to CA?
If you assume the majority of FL’s HSR money is transferred to CA, how much of the rail line can be constructed?
Jack Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
Any changes to existing funding would have to pass the Senate, and a very Pro-HSR President. The republican house can crow all they want, there is a reason we have checks and balances in place and this idiocy is one of them.
What will most likely happen is they will try to zero out funding and attach it to the spending bill. We are lucky to have two Senior senators in place that are pro-hsr and will most likely strip these provisions in any compromise talks.
My biggest worry is that in the interest of compromise they’ll zero out funding just to get a spending plan through and then try to restore what was lost during the transportation bill. Obama has made it clear HSR is one of his priority/legacy agenda items and the opposition would love nothing more to use it as a weapon against him.
We’ll see how all of this holds up with gas prices rocketing over a dollar a gallon in the past week. $40 dollars to fill up my little Mazda… Ridiculous.
Victor Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
I agree, Screw Boehner and His ilk and a Pox on them I say, We will do just fine, The Senate is not in Loony Republican hands and even If they did get a bill cutting HSR out past there, President Obama would Veto that and I doubt there would be enough votes to make an override happen, So 2013 here We come. I say make’em blink, We’ll build HSR and show them It makes airline routes drop from the sky, whether they like It or not.
Victor Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 4:08 pm
At least here in California Republicans and Democrats aren’t Nuts, At least on the State level, As to Our Congressmen, 3 seem to be infected, It’s too bad they couldn’t be quarantined. ;)
Anthony Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
Chuck DeVore isn’t nuts????? Okay granted if you live anywhere that’s not in Central Valley, Inland Empire or Orange 95% White County, then you haven’t seen any loony Republicans. All the places I mentioned have at least ONE.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
The only DeVore I know of is in a Pass on the I5 freeway, If He is, Hopefully He’ll term and burn soon enough.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Yeah gas here ranges from $3.759 to $4.299 and that’s just for 87 Octane, I only put in $18.95(4.86 gallons as I had almost a quarter of a tank left) @ $3.899 a gallon recently to get to about 1/2 a tank and I get SSI as I’m disabled, So the gas isn’t cheap for Me and I’d love a full tank, But I’m moving soon so I’m staying put until I need to drive to get the mail again.
Anthony Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
Why you concerned about your former home? You make it sound like good people there are going to suffer. Well they will but who’s fault is that? No yours so don’t take it personally. They wanted Rick Scott, so that’s what they got, they gotta live with it.
We will get more money, because we are ready with plans and funding to move forward on 30 in 10 and HSR, so we’ll be way ahead of the game and be happy your here in California as the population shifts from the Northeast to the warmer Southwest and the middle continues to dry up as industry relocates off shore or in warmer climates.
Let The LEADER LEAD
$2.4 billion could do a LOT to bring the NEC into a state of good repair. At the very least, replace the B&P tunnels in Baltimore and Portal Bridge in NJ. It’s high time we started putting the attention we need into maintaining our existing infrastructure rather than only building shiny new things (which then fall into disrepair after 30 years because we don’t maintain them well enough.)
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 4:24 pm
They are already working on replacing Portal Bridge, construction has started. The B&P tunnel doesn’t have enough engineering done for them to start turning dirt anytime soon.
PeakVT Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
The FRA published a new report on Baltimore last month.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Reports are a good thing. It means someday they will actually do something. They are out on the banks of the Hackensack River doing things now. Well maybe not at the moment you read this but they are well on the way to beginning actual construction of the new bridge. One with three tracks and high enough above the river that it doesn’t have to be movable.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:29 pm
I’m pleased to see that the cost estimates have not run over since the mid-2000s.
PeakVT Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 11:59 am
They probably did run over… and then the recession knocked them back into line.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:20 pm
Could be. Then again, Second Avenue Subway, ARC, and other assorted projects did not get knocked back into line, even though individual contracts in the recession came below budget. Megaproject budgets are sticky downward.
Alan F Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
The projected costs for the replacement B&P Tunnel are very likely to go up once the detailed engineering studies are underway. One of the big cost drivers for the Second Ave subway and the ARC project for the NYC part of it is/was dealing with the existing infrastructure and complex maze of utility lines that underlie a built out city. I believe the Second Ave subway is having to shore up the foundations of over a 100 buildings along the current phase 1 section and was delayed by having to move a bunch of pipes, communication and power lines that were not on the maps when they started. The cost of acquiring property in NYC for the air vents, access shafts, construction work areas is also a big factor.
The replacement for the B&P tunnel under west Baltimore in the FRA report may go deep enough to avoid a lot of the utilities, but the report is a very preliminary report. Until the soil core samples are taken and a detailed engineering review is done for possible obstructing water pipes, deep building foundations, and so on, the cost figures may be too optimistic. Tunnels can run into surprises, whether it is a section of fractured rock, or a utility line that is not on the charts.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Most of it is going to be very deep, Baltimore is hilly.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
It’s almost sounding like their looking for Buried Pirate Treasure.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:51 am
I wish we had the sort of intensive, accurate mapping of utilities which they do in London. They started requiring it by law VERY early (1800s, I believe), so they do NOT find unmapped utilities when they dig in London.
It seems to me that LaHood’s statement is deliberately vague. “[S]tates across America are enthusiastic about receiving additional support” could very well mean that he intends to spread the money around to non-bullet train projects; this would be his last opportunity to do so since any bill that Mica writes will tie his hands. I don’t mean to imply that he doesn’t intend to give California HSR money, just that he isn’t tipping his hand just yet. Politicians are skilled in making statements that sound good, but don’t necessarily commit them.
Im guessing 50% will go to Cali, which will provide a 20% match. (1.2 billion)
The next lump to the NEC, including the lines that border it, like the empire builder, the Springfield line, keystone etc) 800 million.
200 million to chicago/michigan region
100 million to seattle-portland
100 million left over for “new starts” of high speed rail, like maine, planning in texas, florida east coast etc.
Daniel Krause Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
My guess is $1.5B for CA and will be matched by $1B – That would be $8B for Central Valley, not a chunk of change.
YESonHSR Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:46 pm
Im thinking it will depend on just how the ARRA money and 2010 HSR funding is spilt up..FLA got about 1.6billion ARRA and the rest 2010 funds..if we got half their ARRA and match it like before that would be 1.6billion right there..the 2010 needs a 20% match so lets see who eles has the funds..
Risenmessiah Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
California is going to get a slice but look for Washington and Nevada to get enough money to build the Pacific firewall….
Loren Petrich Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
Pacific firewall?
Blambert Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:59 am
Presidential electoral politics; the “Pacific firewall” is referring to the probable solid “blue” (Democratic) electoral votes from OR, CA, WA, and NV.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:12 am
Nevada’s purple.
Blambert Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 3:01 am
Nitpicking!
JJJ Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Are the dessert express people, as a private venture, allowed to bid on federal rail money?
Victor Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Their getting a loan, In any case I doubt they would be able to bid or be allowed.
wu ming Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
the firewall’s already built, the west coast hasn’t voted GOP for president since 1988. OR and WA has been reliably D since 1988, CA flipped in 1992, only nevada has actually swung (D 92, D 96, R 00, R 04, D 08).
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Now if only the Firewall could be pushed towards the east coast.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 9:13 am
Ahem. We have our own firewall here in the Northeast. If we can just get New Hampshire and Maine to stop flirting with idiocy, we are well on our way to eliminating lunatic Republicans from New England. Next, push them out of New York.
I personally hope that the elimination of the lunatic Republican party regionally will allow for the emergence of a *real* alternative party. Bernie Sanders’s Socialists would be ideal, but I’d settle for anything sane.
AlanF Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Not a bad guess. CT got $120 million of the $220 million they applied for the New Haven- Springfield MA corridor. Michigan did not get all they needed for the Chicago-Detroit corridor. Getting those 2 fully funded would make a difference. The issue with the NEC is the lack of significant projects other than the Portal Bridge replacement that are ready to start construction anytime soon.
While I support the CA HSR project and think it is the most important rail project in the US, it won’t start passenger service for many years. The other projects will result in improved service, increased ridership and provide transportation alternatives in the next 1 to 3 years. We need to spend money on both real HSR and 79 to 110 mph train services. If California did not have the Pacific Surfliner, Capital Corridor, San Joaquin trains, CA HSR would not have the political support that it does.
JJJ Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 8:13 pm
Speaking of those services, the last money drop did set aside funds for those corridors. New rolling stock and speed improvements. I believe the majority went to the Pac Surf as we all know the San Diego portion of HSR is very far away.
Elizabeth Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
The Feds required California to do a 50% match on the funds that they got from Wisconsin and Ohio and seems likely there would be a similar requirement as California offered it in the ARRA applications.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 11:02 am
I think they’re basically asking us to live up to the terms of the original proposal, for the additional money.
YesonHSR Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
I’m hoping this is the last of those terms.. we’re going thru the bond too fast with that level of matching. The rest of the states basically didn’t put a penny for their ARRA funds though we are going to try and increase our projects goals with the match.
Elizabeth Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Nobody forced California to offer up one dime in matching funds. That was our bad.
wu ming Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
how is getting more money to complete our HSR bad, exactly? states that don’t offer matching funds effectively get less money for their projects. the sooner HSR is built, the more insulated we are from the coming gas price spikes.
Joe Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
It’s a good way to build the system; raise money with matching funds and demonstrate the State wants the project. The stimulus helps the economy in CA too.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Matching funds good. If the matching funds complete Fresno to Palmdale it will be evident that it is well worth it.
In other news, the Florida decision as reported by NARP’s “Hotline News”–and further down, Amtrak’s top cop has kicked the TSA off the property for mistreating passengers:
http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/hotline/more/hotline_696/
political_incorrectness Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 10:29 pm
I am thankful that the top of Amtrak kicked the TSA out! This will hopefully set precedent for companies to set their own security standards.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Sweet! I love Amtrak for this.
YesonHSR Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:39 pm
TSA is lame
D. P. Lubic Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 8:19 am
If it’s worth anything, Don Phillips (Trains magazine columnist, and former reporter for transportation on the Washington Post) knows this fellow, and considers him one of the top policemen in the country, combining smart enforcement with respect for rights and an understanding of a railroad and transit environment. That includes its obvious weaknesses (easy access, often 24 hours per day), and strengths (plenty of civilians around with eyes to watch for things, including us crazy railfans).
jimsf Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
It would be foolish to do tsa style on amtrak, so many of the customer come to us for the specific reason that they are fed up with airport tsa.
further down in that article was also this:
Airlines increased ticket prices again last week in response to increased oil prices.
Industry leader Southwest airlines raised round-trip prices by $10 on late last month. The move was quickly mimicked by United Airlines, American Airlines and Delta Air Lines within just days.
A representative of Southwest attributed the increase to rising fuel prices.
jim Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:23 pm
It’s also very difficult to do tsa style security theatre on Amtrak. Savannah was, presumably, chosen because there’s an island platform and the tracks are fenced off, except for a path from the platform to the station building. It’s possible to go out of one’s way and avoid the station building, but the natural route to and from the platform is through it (and past the unannounced tsa). Most American stations aren’t like that. The only relationship between the platform(s) and station building is propinquity; there’s no need to go through the building to access the train. Even large city stations provide multiple accesses to the platforms. Imagine trying to do tsa style screening at New York’s Penn Station.
Airport architecture separates airside and groundside and so enables screening at the boundary. California HSR is planning to duplicate this at their stations. It would be good to push against those plans.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:54 am
Yes, let’s push against those plans. Train stations need to be TRAIN STATIONS, not mimics of airports.
Look Robert, I haven’t read all the comments but.
The people in Florida get what they deserve. Rick Scott is their Governor and they have to live with it. The GOP is still controlled by morons, idiots and neo-cons, so fine you don’t want to show up for Democrats that don’t push hard and go far enough on law, but think about the Republican idiots… They will do this, they can’t be surprised by the behavior of Christie, Scott or any other Republican Governor.
So in the end this hope they get another Governor that will give the HSR is Pollyanna at its best, the GOP are among some of the worst human beings and Americans on the planet, period, you should never, ever under any circumstances vote for them but a good 40% of America constantly does because they don’t like Latinos, Black People, Gays and non Christians, when you people going to learn this?
YesonHSR Reply:
March 4th, 2011 at 11:46 pm
Thank you
Donk Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 7:27 am
Come on, not all Republicans vote Republican because they are racist. Sure there are many that do but saying that most Republicans are racist just make you sound like an idiot.
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 9:38 am
The ones that aren’t racist are stupid.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 11:27 am
Well let’s see, there are
* Racists
* Homophobes
* Establishmentarian religious fundamentalists
* Gun nuts
* Rabidly paranoid anti-Communists
* People who long for the good ol’ days when everyone lived on ranches in the Santa Ynez Mountains
It’s quite a cadre… Did I miss anyone?
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 11:51 am
The fun part is that that you can mix and match or even do “all of the above”
Spokker Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
What cities do you guys live in? Who among you are white and middle class and moved to East LA or Compton?
Spokker Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Oh, and blacks are generally as homophobic as whites. They are very much anti-gay marriage. Most of black California voters backed prop 8.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 8:57 am
Yes, Matthew, you missed the “low information voter” who only catches a little bit of the Koch Brothers propaganda and *actually believes* that there’s a government debt crisis (which there isn’t) and that it’s caused by “too much spending” (whereas in reality most government budget crises today were caused by cutting taxes on the very rich), and that Republicans actually intend to do something about it (in reality, they always make it worse — as with Walker’s tax cuts for the rich).
These are the people who are shocked when they discover that Walker is a lunatic (“he seemed so nice on TV”) and who are shocked when Scott cancels the HSR (“I don’t remember him campaigning on that”).
I’d only expect California to get about $1 billion from this money. New York wants money for the Gateway project or for New York-Albany, but there’s nothing concrete ready to be built. That basically leaves Washington, Illinois, and Connecticut. Washington scored with the Ohio/Wisconsin money, Illinois scored big in the initial grants, so I’m betting at least $300-400 million goes to Connecticut for the Springfield Line.
The state has moved fast to (re)double track the line, and has indicated electrification is on the table and infrastructure will be built to accommodate this. CT has given billions to it’s rail program after years of dis-investment, and from signaling the Danbury Line, building a huge yard in New Haven, expanding Shore Line East, and replacing the century old catenary on the New Haven Line, the state has shown Washington it’s ready for rail expansion. More importantly, the new governor has indicated an end to road expansion, instead focusing on maintenance and alternative transportation, which fits well into Obama’s plans.
Gov. Malloy is like the anti-Christie, and has been branded in the New York press as such, so national Dems may throw him a bone by giving a significant amount of money to the state to finally get the Springfield Line running.
James M. in Irvine Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 12:06 am
The anti-Christie, I like the sound of that!
Jim
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
Yeah Me too, Hopefully CT will get some then, They at least look like they deserve & want some help, People like Scott I dread, As their elected by those who want something they object to destroyed by any means possible out of shear ignorance.
StevieB Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:42 am
Who gets the money depends on where they are in engineering and environmental reports and when they can start construction and when they can finish and if they can provide matching funds.
Blambert Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 3:15 am
There’s also a $290 million request from NC that didn’t make the cut before; given that the Democratic National Convention in 2012 is being held in Charlotte, that makes NC somewhat likely to see some more cash (assuming that political considerations are in play; I’m not entirely convinced of that).
It’s also, IMO, somewhat likely that this goes to more “top-ups”, if there are more lying around, and to some engineering grants to states that have been marginal for passenger rail heretofore.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 11:27 am
LaHood is a Republican :)
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
LaHood may be a Republican, But He’s one who is a believer in HSR I’d think, So I’d rather give Him the benefit of the doubt, Besides He isn’t a politician, My Sister in law and My 2 Nieces are Republicans and all 3 have ridden on Amtrak and HSR in Europe and loved It, My Nephew on the other hand is a Republican too, He never has rode on Any Train and has said No one rides on Trains out of Ignorance and denial, But then He’s almost hip deep in problems that He almost can’t control, But He loves Me a lot at least, So I forgive Him of His Ignorance.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
I just mean that he wouldn’t be likely to base his decisions on catering to a national convention (especially one that would be concluded long before any of the results from the project are visible).
wu ming Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
not a politician? lahood was an elected congressman for 14 years before he got appointed sec of trans.
Spokker Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:12 pm
If he goes back to Congress do you think his support of HSR will become a black mark on his record? Haha.
Spokker Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
As an aside, once the Republican nominee for president is decided we can decide how afraid to be for HSR.
If a Newt Gingrich or Sarah Palin get the nod, then we don’t have to worry much. If the Republicans manage to find a competent nominee, than we better get those shovels in the ground as quickly as possible, haha.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
LaHood is a moderate Republican. He has no connection to the libertarians: according to Brad DeLong, he offered Democrats an explanation for why the WSJ editorials are so slanted by arguing that the paper’s editorial department is trying to make persuasive arguments instead of strong ones. Instead, he’s a small town social conservative, precisely the type of non-leftist who would be the most pro-transit; he’s a non-fundamentalist Weyrich, or a non-neo-Confederate Lind.
synonymouse Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
LaHood is slipping money to Palmdale real estate developers – that does have a GOP corrupt K Street ring to it. Maybe that qualifies him as a Repub.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 9:34 pm
That’s the kind of allegation that screams “libel”, if you can’t back it up…
synonymouse Reply:
March 6th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Bechtel infallibility lives on:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/us/06bcseats.html?_r=1
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 6th, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Bechtel didn’t write the specifications for cloth seats, BART did. If BART had specified untanned yak skin BART trains would have untanned yak skin. If they had specified no seats there would be no seats.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 9:04 am
LaHood *was* a Republican — anyone think he’s still voting Republican after his experiences recently? He’s the sort of Republican I could vote for. There are fewer and fewer of them in the party.
Alan F Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 8:50 am
NY state submitted a laundry list of projects for the Empire corridor to Albany and Buffalo in both the stimulus and FY10 applications. For the FY10 grants, NY got $28 million of the $138 million for the projects they applied for. With a list of projects, the FRA could pick another $50 or $100 million set of projects. Amtrak’s Gateway proposal first needs to get PE/NEPA funding, so yes, it is not suitable for any of the redirected FL funds besides perhaps some additional funding for the related Portal Bridge replacement project.
CT asked for $220 million for the New Haven-Springfield MA corridor, got $121 million in the FY10 grants. Pretty good odds that they get the rest of the $220 million when the FL funds get redirected. Amtrak owns the New Haven-Springfield corridor, so freight railroad negotiations to deal with. Another NEC feeder corridor that could use funding is the electrified Keystone East corridor between Philly and Harrisburg PA. PA applied for $490 million total for upgrades to 125 mph speeds (from 110), got $26 million for closing the last 3 grade crossings on the route and PE for interlocking replacements. $300 to $400 million would upgrade the corridor and score some political points with Rep. Bill Shuster (PA) who is on the Transportation committee.
Other corridors that could use additional funding are the Chicago-Detroit, Chicago-St. Louis, and the SouthEast HSR corridor or at least the NC Raleigh to Charlotte portion of it. The important SE HSR route from Richmond VA to Raleigh NC is close to finishing the Tier 2 EIS, but it will take several billion to accomplish and is going to have to wait to locate future funding if Obama can succeed in getting HSR and Intercity rail money in the next 6 year Transportation bill.
It will be interesting to see how LaHood and the FRA divvy up the $2.4 billion of the Florida HSR funds. California is going to get a good chunk, but there are other projects that can use funding as well.
YesonHSR Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 12:16 pm
The large percentage of the money I think we’ll go to the big winners of the first funding rounds to help complete their project.. Illinois may get a lot more since they are actually in construction and it is 110 mph service. The state of Washington’s project at this point is not 110 mph nor is North Carolina’s and that’s what gets Mica mad and gives the anti-high-speed rail people something to write about. The Philadelphia to Harrisburg section would be a good choice for a full funding request to complete their project. Is the Empire corridor project even ready to start 2012 construction for 110 mph service? They may also have to wait for the transportation funding bill.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 12:40 pm
Define “Empire Corridor”. There’s 125 MPH track already laid and signaled. They don’t have any trains capable of taking advantage of it.
YesonHSR Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
I guess I was referring to west of Albany.. though I’m not sure that’s why I’m asking. Where is that 125 mph section located? I do remember seeing in the initial ARRA grants dream wish section that the state of New York when $7.9 billion.. this sounds like true high-speed so that kind of money will have to wait for the transportation bill.
Donk Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
I bet they give CA just enough to finish the route to Bakersfield. Then the rest gets divvied up to the others. Not sure exactly how much they need to finish the Bako section.
This gives them a complete Fresno-Bako line and can no longer be ridiculed as a train to nowhere. I don’t see them giving CA additional funds for additional mileage to nowhere, as there are no stops until Palmdale or Gilroy (or Merced).
YesonHSR Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
Well they’re only about 8 miles north of Bakersfield so I sure hope they get more money than that.. I’m hoping for enough to get right to the city limits and a temporary grade level connection and extend the line north of Madera to Merced. That will basically be the entire phase one Valley segment minus the Y. connector to San Jose
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Yeah Even I hope they can get into Bakersfield proper and just beyond the station, Hopefully CA only needs to get $1.5 Billion to do that, Of course they’ll need to get into Palmdale before even dreaming of Temporary Operations, If that’s even allowed of course. And If there is enough money to get just to the south of the Bakersfield Station, I say the CHSRA should push on to Palmdale and then to Los Angeles.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Bakersfield + station…
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Agreed.
Roger Christensen Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Maybe Bakersfield + station + Edison segment of Bakersfield to Palmdale….
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:55 pm
That would be good too, The more miles of track and such is built, The better.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 9:06 am
I like that possibility.
Money should definitely go to Conneticuty to finish off the electrification. It will help reduce the Amtrak subsidy required as on the Keystone corridor with a higher speed corridor and reduce the cost of operations without the requirement of switching to a diessel in New Haven. That project should be awarded its funds. I would definitely put some into the NEC maintenance backlog if possible.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Yes, I agree, Amtrak has lots of support and needs all the help It can get to become something It has always had dreams of being, Independent, Competitive and doing so at High Speed on It’s own rails, Nationwide too I’d think, But then I’m a Rail fan, So Amtrak has My support for what It’s worth at least.
Hooray, a bright day for CA!
Love to see how the Gov’s of WI and FL become an example of Republican stupidity as gas prices near $5/gal!
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Some already think wrongly that cause of potentially huge finds off the Brazilian coast in very deep waters that gasoline will go back down to $2.509 a gallon, Considering It’s depth, the time It takes to get the oil to market and the expense, It would have to a heck of a lot larger than all of Saudi Arabia’s and other OPEC members oil reserves to possibly do that as there is a lot more demand now than there was when Gasoline was at $2.509 a gallon and Brazil could charge what they want for the oil, It’s theirs after all. We’ll see in any case.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
It doesn’t matter – soon enough cold fusion will make power too cheap to meter. And we’ll never run out of resources anyway because there are infinitely many points on a line segment.
synonymouse Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Pons and Fleischman for Nobels!
synonymouse Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Commodities prices march in tandem with fuel costs. If there were a profound, long-term turn to electric, copper would inflate, more than it already has. Low lifes and gangbangers ripping out and down copper, even at the risk of getting fried. Like Brazil.
Think back to the NdeM’s electrification to Queretaro which only survived a few years. Apply the same illogic to a CHSRA swimming in red ink and with no private buyers. Grades too steep for the freight rr’s to use and they don’t want the cantenary. Just because California has a bunch of rich people currently residing in it you believe that the State can’t become so broke it cannot afford support an hsr? Look around and see if you can find any California-subsidized Greyhounds or Jet Blues.
I suggest this worst case scenario is in the minds of the governors who reject the feds payola for hsr. Their states are close to being in the toilet and they have to abstain on the luxuries like hsr.
This is where truly revolutionary tech like maglev has a chance. Directly and truly competitive with airline schedules(unlike Stilt-A-Rail) it could make money from the wealthy in first class seats and employees making third world wages. That is because the future California viewed from the maglev would have gone totally third world povertyville, just like our neighbors.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
“Commodities prices march in tandem with fuel costs.”
No, they don’t.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
synonymouse is hopeless.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Synonymouse;
I have to respectfully disagree with you; from my experience and observations of politicians in general, they aren’t smart enough to think of the worst-case scenario you describe. Rather, it seems to me they believe in the bit about “real Americans don’t ride trains,” which in turn leads to the “concerns” about running up operating deficits, while at the same time ignoring the very real deficits of the highway system. This same bunch will also go and condemn the oil industry for gouging the public, and then solicit campaign contributions from the same oil industry, and at the same time insult anybody who suggests trains, trolleys, monorails or maglev as an alternative to cars. I know, I’ve faced this first hand.
It would be funny if the possible consequences of not really dealing with the problem weren’t so serious. Alas, that has been just the course we have been on for the last 35 years.
synonymouse Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
The rust belt states have been in the crapper so long that even the pols know it is pretty bad out there.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Actually, I think only the Michigan pols have figured that out. And some of the Rust Belt *Democrats*. The Rust Belt Republicans are mostly saying “Hooray, all those big city people are suffering with the industries moved to China, now we “Real ‘Murkins” can lord it over them”. Whic is idiotic, but that *is* the mentality I see, and I’m closer to the rust belt than you are.
Nathanael Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 9:09 am
Michigan’s the exception because Michigan has been in REALLY bad shape for a REALLY long time, rather than in moderately bad shape for a fairly long time like Ohio or Indiana or upstate NY.
Matthew F. Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 9:37 pm
Oooh so Maglev is your hobby horse!
D. P. Lubic Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 6:35 pm
An interesting thing about the oil market–it’s a true international commodity market, with a nominally generic product to sell.
What this means is that all oil in the market is also subject to all bidders in the market. Among other things, this effectively means we bid against all the world for our own oil, even if our oil never leaves the country.
It would be different if there were an American-only market and a market for the rest of the world, but to do that would mean we would also have to live on the oil we produce ourselves–and that’s only about one-third of what we use. You can imagine either the price problems or supply problems, or both, in such a scenario.
Of course, two-thirds of what we use is for transportation, and over half of the total demand (and more than two-thirds of the transportation demand) is for motor fuel. A non-oil transportation system would be mighty handy in that circumstance, and would be mighty handy now, if we would just get on the stick.
Victor Reply:
March 5th, 2011 at 7:02 pm
We have a lot of Natural Gas here in the USA, Maybe Converting to that would help and make It easy for those who have older cars and for those Who can’t pay for the work or something.
So we are getting our $4 billion stimulus after all, eh?
Maybe Florida should start small. Upgraded commuter rail or light rail systems in all major cities. That should be enough for the decade.
thatbruce Reply:
March 7th, 2011 at 11:44 am
One would hope that the reservations in the interstate median are retained, allowing a future change of leadership to build it (or a private consortium to do so).