Strong Support in CA Legislature for HSR
Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has just over a week left in office, but the newly elected 2011-12 legislature has already been sworn in. And that legislature is strongly supportive of high speed rail – and that support is bipartisan, as the Capitol Weekly explains, interviewing Senate Republican leader Bob Huff on the project. Huff had been critical of the choice of the Borden-Corcoran alignment, ignoring its inclusion of stations at Fresno and Hanford/Visalia, but he is much happier with the extension to Bakersfield – and still supports HSR:
Huff, a supporter of high speed rail, says in a perfect world, the project would have started in either the Bay Area or the Los Angeles-Anaheim corridor. “Sometimes you have to take the money you can get,” said Huff.
Regarding some of the concerns raised by auditors about Authority operations, Huff did not see these as a reason to withdraw project support:
Huff chalks it up to growing pains. “It’s like watching a toddler take his first step and you hope he doesn’t plow into the coffee table,” he said. Huff believes the authority, with a new chief executive in place, is moving in the right direction. “It’s all happening as it should, maybe not necessarily in the order I’d like.”
Huff represents Diamond Bar, a suburb in eastern Los Angeles County, so something built in the Central Valley doesn’t really help him much. But he is showing a mature understanding of the process of the HSR project and why it should still be supported. He is right that CHSRA’s issues are indeed “growing pains” – a small agency, systematically underfunded and lacking sufficient staff, is going to have these kinds of problems, but they are being addressed.
Huff also gave a very good statement about the overall benefits of HSR and why it is needed:
Huff says California is running out of time to plan for the future. “When it comes to transportation … you don’t have the luxury of saying we’ll deal with it later,” he said, adding that voters who approved Prop 1A want to see progress. “It’s time for the rest of us to roll up our sleeves and implement their vision in the most cost effective manner as possible.”
Huff has it exactly right, and is talking like a true HSR supporter. He shows that in California, unlike in states such as Wisconsin or Ohio, Republicans can be just as strong HSR supporters as Democrats and independents. Huff is not alone in that support among Republican legislators – I’ve had conversations with several leading Sacramento Republicans who share Huff’s strong support for the project.
Of course, there are a small number of HSR opponents in both parties in Sacramento. Two Republicans, Jim Neilsen and Doug LaMalfa, are proposing a bill to put Prop 1A up for a revote:
Nielsen feels during these extremely difficult budget times, while a nice luxury to have, the rail project is not worth the effort just so Californians can say to our neighbors we are “greener” than them.
The assemblyman made an announcement earlier this month that he and newly seated Sen. Doug LaMalfa, R-Richvale, have co-authored Senate Bill 22, to send the issue back to the voters and ask them to repeal the funding for the high-speed rail system.
“Whatever its advantages, we cannot afford high speed rail when we are faced with addressing a $6 billion deficit in the current budget year, and a projected $26 billion dollar deficit in the next budget year,” Nielsen said.
As we know, this is bullshit. California HSR bond repayments would be at most $600 million a year, a very small percentage of the overall $27 billion deficit. The matching federal funds we earn act as stimulus and job creation in the Central Valley, creating new revenue for the state. Even if we stopped all work on the HSR project, it would do virtually nothing to solve the state’s structural revenue shortfall, which the Legislative Analyst’s Office has put at about $20 billion each year through at least 2016.
Neilsen and LaMalfa are clearly trying to repeat the anti-HSR claims of fellow Republicans Scott Walker and John Kasich, the new governors in Wisconsin and Ohio who rejected federal HSR funds. And as Bob Huff’s statements make clear, along with support for HSR from incoming Governor Jerry Brown and from a vast majority of Democrats, this proposal for a re-vote on Prop 1A is going absolutely nowhere. It represents a minority view among Republicans in Sacramento, and while some Republicans in the California Congressional delegation share those views, it seems that incoming House Transportation Committee chair John Mica of Florida still supports California HSR. So these Republican HSR critics can threaten a re-vote all they want, but it won’t happen. Californians have twice shown their support for HSR – both in the passage of Prop 1A and the election of Jerry Brown. So this project is going to happen.
There is one lone Democrat who is not in support of this project, and that is Senator Alan Lowenthal. The Capitol Weekly article gave perhaps the clearest indication we’ve seen that Lowenthal is indeed an opponent – not just a critic, but an outright opponent – of our high speed rail project, as the following quotes will reveal:
Those charged with overseeing the project are not satisfied. “I don’t like the idea of making these decisions with a gun to our head,” said Senator Alan Lowenthal, D-Long Beach, who added that he found it strange that the authority didn’t ask the federal government for an extension. “There are potentially lots of unintended consequences.”
This was in response to the FRA’s mandate that the stimulus and other federal HSR funds go to the Central Valley. Lowenthal surely knows why the money went to the Valley – it has the worst unemployment of any segment along the proposed route. Why would the Authority ask for an “extension” when the Obama Administration had made it clear where they wanted it to go? And why would the Authority risk losing those funds by delaying them past the end of this year? It’s a nonsensical suggestion that makes no sense if one actually backs the project.
Lowenthal went on:
Lowenthal, who chairs the Senate transportation committee, says he is concerned about the transparency and governance of the authority, and he has unanswered questions about the project’s long-term feasibility.
“They want a lot of money,” said Lowenthal in a phone interview. “Well, they’ve got to answer these questions, first.”
Lowenthal says the authority has resisted legislators’ requests for a revised business plan and failed to conduct any public outreach or discussion before the initial line was chosen. He adds that the entity’s top-down attitude in dealing with municipalities along the planned corridor have led to fierce opposition in areas like the peninsula south of San Francisco, where a consortium of cities is currently suing to halt the project.
Those issues exist, but contrast Lowenthal’s “omg this project is doooooomed” attitude with Bob Huff’s “well, these are issues, but they’re a sign of growing pains, and will be addressed.” Huff is showing how a true supporter acts – makes criticisms, expects them to be addressed, but doesn’t try to undermine the project in the process. And those issues are being addressed – when CHSRA CEO Roelof van Ark went to meet with Gilroy officials, who had made their own criticisms of the Authority’s outreach, Gilroy city council members responded that they felt much better about the project after that meeting and had greater confidence that their needs would be met.
Lowenthal and others are not convinced the risk is worth it.
“They are now making decisions on billions of dollars, and they haven’t demonstrated competence,” said Lowenthal, who notes that attempts by Sen. Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, to tie some state money to benchmarks was vetoed by the governor.
With changes to the CHSRA board coming, a new governor who support of HSR goes back three decades and who will ensure that the project is done right, strong bipartisan support for the project, and a new CEO who is improving the Authority’s outreach and operations, there is every reason to believe that the Authority will become more competent. And in any case, this project is one that California cannot afford to build. If Lowenthal doesn’t have his own proposals for fixing the Authority, then he’s just trying to undermine the project with these criticisms.
In any case, Lowenthal is termed out in 2012. He may be an opponent of HSR, using these criticisms to undermine the project, but he is outnumbered in the Legislature, has a governor who won’t enable him to attack HSR, and stands in opposition to the rest of California in support of HSR.
As many Californians have discovered this week as they’ve traveled around this state, our current methods of intrastate travel don’t work. Driving takes WAY too long, and flying has become very inconvenient. There is a whole state full of people just waiting for this high speed train to provide them with the kind of 21st century transportation this state needs. It’s not a luxury – it’s a necessity.

It’s amazing how some people don’t “oppose” the project, but their public commentary on it is in the range of 100% negative.
On the upside: Kudos to State Sen. Huff–the initial route selection doesn’t help Diamond Bar much, but his support is real, his reasons are thought-out and his criticisms are honest. I’m no Republican, but I’ll take a true supporter from either side of the aisle.
Victor Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 6:48 pm
Same here, I’d take support from anyone in Sacramento and Washington DC.
Nathanael Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Yes, this is excellent news. Apparently there exist Republicans who are sane on some issues in California, and one of them is even the incoming State Senate chair. I am pleasantly surprised.
James Fujita Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Huff’s support is especially surprising when you consider that Diamond Bar isn’t on Cal HSR or Metro Rail’s immediate radar screen. The closest Metrolink station appears to be Industry.
Walter Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 12:05 am
But remember, State Senators cover pretty big districts. Huff’s, the 29th, covers parts of LA, Industry and Anaheim, where there will be stations, not to mention many surrounding communities with easy access to these stations.
On the vein of Sen. Lowenthal is the LA Weekly; only in Los Angeles would the alternative newspaper run Wendall Cox style journalism against LA’s expanding Metro Rail system.
I don’t expect much from the Tea Party base of the Republican Party. No plan for austerity like the Tories in Britain, just a lot of nothing policy wise. However, if there’s one issue we could get cooperation on from the Reps in CA it may be on HSR.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
The LA Weekly is a shell of its former self. I hope it gets sold again as part of the lawsuit VVM lost to the Bay Guardian, and that new owners can restore its reputation. Much of what the current LA Weekly puts out is slander and lies, not just on transportation issues. It’s a travesty.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
The Issue with Lowenthal is that he is not running it…PERIOD that is why he is beging a bitch
In about a-year-and-a-half the copious turning of dirt and concrete aerial structures along the Central Valley (and perhaps Florida) will be a political game changer both here in Calif. and nationwide. In time for Nov. 2012.
hope everyone finds one of these under the tree tomorrow!
James Fujita Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
Merry Christmas!
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Well, I have to apollogize for being a little late, having just got back from a 225-mile, 4 1/2-hour (one-way) trip to take my wife to see her mother (first chance we’ve had to do so since May, and her mom is in her early 90s). Had a decent time, including staying in a motel built in 1948, which was the cheapest one we could find, semi-retro yet comfortable (which I liked, and my wife did,too).
An aural Christmas card from Rural Retreat, Va., 1957, recorded by the great, late photographer and sound recorder, O. Winston Link, originally linked from Railway Preservation News; turn up those speakers as Norfolk & Western J-class engine 603, a home-made steam streamliner, makes a stop at Rural Retreat with 17-car train, and then races off into the night as Link’s microphones pick up the train–and the carillon of a nearby church. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbzAJoW34DM
Original RyPN link, with commentary and other links on this touching aural recording:
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30600
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year!
Not sure I agree on either point. Lowenthal may have genuine questions about why the alignment was selected as is.
Secondly, I don’t think the Central Valley portion was selected by the FRA because of unemployment. If I had to guess it’s probably because it would earn them votes in the Bay Area and L.A. without favoring the Bay Area OR L.A. Not to mention it’s the cheapest place to the build, and can benefit existing Amtrak service right away.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
December 24th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
I’ve actually had a few different sources tell me the Obama Administration insisted the money go to the Central Valley because it is stimulus funding, after all, and one of the hardest hit parts of the country in this recession is the Valley. They did not believe that the Bay Area or SoCal had a better claim on the need for stimulus. The other issues, including public debate over alignments, factored into this, along with a desire to help Jim Costa get re-elected, but this really was a decision motivated by the desire to create jobs where they were most needed.
Risenmessiah Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
If what you say is true, that makes me think that the Administration is incredibly tone-deaf. If the run on “stimulus” in 2012 they will lose. It’s not because austerity is a winning message. It’s that “stimulus” has been grouped with the bailout and other very unpopular initiatives. And if you think about it, the stimulus (and concept of stimulus) has been so amorphous, I understand why. Even during Bush’s term, token tax cuts did nothing for the common man and I don’t know they will do anything this time around.
Now I can see the Administration thinking that the CV segment could employ the most number of people the quickest before 2012…but that’s not really where Obama’s head needs to be at. His real problem is that he looks afraid to enforce his will, and he hasn’t shown a willingness to crack down on a specific group.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Irrespective of whether they run on the stimulus as a slogan, they cannot avoid facing the electoral impact of the effects of the stimulus. And since they lowballed the stimulus in both extent and low impact tax concessions, it makes perfect sense for them to try to squeeze the most stimulus impact out of what they did pass.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Its should have been 70percent for rebuilding and new construction..ie HSR, that 50 billion for HSR should have been in the ARRA .alot went for tax breaks that the critics somehow fail to mention when they attack it.
Risenmessiah Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Well don’t get carried away now. The term “economic stimulus” was from 2001 when Bush 43 was trying to sell tax cuts in the face of a recession. Congressional Dems revived the term in 2007 when the economy appeared to stall. Obama’s real problem is that when he gives substantive speeches like this one: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-economy-georgetown-university he doesn’t echo distinct phraseology to help simply his position to the voters.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
After all, the stronger the stimulus effect, the less likely they are to lose in the 2012 Presidential election. That factor makes “put it where it will have the strongest stimulus effect” quite plausible.
Ray Lahood, U.S. Secretary of Transportation, “if you build it, if you make it comfortable, if you make it so you can afford it, and get there in a timely way, I believe this is what Americans want.”
Brandon from San Diego Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 10:52 am
… and, make it frequent. At peak times, a train every 30 minutes for each type of service – express, regional, local. Off peak, once every hour.
Even though I live in the Bay Area, I like the San Joaquin Valley for one main reason and that is the most track will be built with the money. After this section, the logical part would be to extend either Bakersfield to Los Angeles or near Madera to San Jose.
StevieB Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 5:53 pm
The federal grant next year will be much less than this year. Building a Bakersfield station with connecting track is my prediction for the coming year.
Nathanael Reply:
December 25th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
I predict final EIS and preim design for Bakersfield-Palmdale. But maybe that’s just wishful thinking. Let’s get started on the Big Gap….
Apparently HSR is a job killer now, LOL: http://www.mantecabulletin.com/news/article/19577/#comments
political_incorrectness Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Well, it is just following the laws of economics, when you emphasize one sector, you shift where jobs go to. What I do wonder is if rail jobs do have more longevity than highway jobs. Either way, the construction industry will have a good 8 years carved out for them versus maybe 1 year for a highway project.
synonymouse Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 10:36 am
The permanent rail jobs will be high-compensation union jobs, a major factor in the ongoing public subsidy of the hsr that will be required.
If the subsidy were underwritten solely by taxes on the rich, the forced income redistribution would probably be beneficial if not excusable on the grounds a very few individuals have most all of the money in California. But in the real world of corruption, wherein dwells the patronage machine, it will be the lumpen who will have to bear the burden. That includes the marginalized of the new Appalachia.
It is going to be an interesting year. I’ll go out on a limb and predict that Jerry B. will be recalled.
Brandon from San Diego Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 10:59 am
IMO, there are no viable candidates to replace him from the republican side. Further, I should think Californians are sick and tired of recalls – because as the Schwertzenneggar one showed, it was just a failure of epic proportions.
synonymouse Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Mega-Meg to the rescue.
Schwarzie is just the Hollywood celeb makeover of Jerry B.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
I’m sure she would do as well as she did in the last election she ran in.
Risenmessiah Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
It’s truly amazing what type of pole you find to smoke….
BruceMcF Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Chinese sweatshop wages will not be mandatory for HSR to generate an operating surplus ~ just as Middle Class French incomes can be earned by professional operating and service staff on the French HSR services, and Middle Class German incomes can be earned by professional operating and service staff on the German HSR services, the California HSR will be able to afford to pay US Middle Class incomes to the professional operating and service staff.
Your demand that the people operating the trains and providing services on the train be among the working poor is simply not a requirement to reach an operating surplus.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Why is it always “income redistribution” ( oooohh communism…. scaaaary…. Boo!) when you make policy that drives wealth downward to the working and middle class, but its never “income redistribution” when you make policy which takes money from the working and middle classes and sucks it upward to the wealth.
I guess its because the wealthy are the ones who are really entitled to it huh? I mean after all they are wealthy, which means surely the are just better, smarter, more holy, more pure, better genetically, and they look and smell better right? So they should get all the money and we should be sure to create policy that makes sure they hang onto it cuz you know, they just deserve it. cuz they’re better than us lowlifes who actually do all the work in this country. Of course, while we can’t afford to take a vacation or buy a new car, we do get the immeasurable satisfaction of donating our time, sweat and health, backs, labor to make them rich. Its an honor to take out their trash and imagine the pride and privilege of wiping their asses! Something to which we should surely aspire.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
…more holy, more pure….
Not a theory I subscribe to, or one that people with a reputation to protect would espouse…
Being rich is evidence that God loves you. If He didn’t love you he wouldn’t have made you rich…
The other side of that is that God must not love you since you are poor….
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
…more holy, more pure….
Pretty funny interpretation of “the Word,” considering the teachings of Jesus about the need to show compassion for the poor, and of his antipathy to the money-changers in the temple. . .
How, how did those phonies (i.e., Republican-conservative types) manage to con so many people, and continue to do so after all this time? I know, a lot of people are afraid of change, perhaps from seeing too many wrong changes (a theory of a coworker of mine, and a good way to summarize what I see), but that still doesn’t explain the continued gullibility of those who wanted to see, say, the end of abortion, yet that doesn’t happen (we are not discussing the merits of the case, just the broken promise of the “conservatives”) yet what we do get is plenty of the rich getting, in some cases, obscenely richer, while the rest of us struggle. I don’t expect or really want a hand out, but we need all of us, rich and poor, to work together, to build together, and to sacrifice together. . .as I see it, that rich bunch isn’t working to pull its weight.
One rich fellow who did seem to understand, at least for a while, was Henry Ford. He paid workers $5 per day at a time when most would get maybe one or two, his theory being that his employees would also become his customers, and they could grow rich together. This would at least partially collapse in the economic pressures of the 1930s, culminating in the Battle of the Overpass between UAW members and Ford-hired guards, but this was at least understood for quite some time. How so many of my fellow citizens, both rich and poor–not all, of course, but it seems the majority–seem to have forgotten all this is a mystery to me.
We need each other. We need to be partners.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 6:39 pm
exactly. Right now the business is still making money without putting anything in because they are selling products to people who are either working for the govt or people who are getting unemployment for the govt. So not only do we give them tax breaks, but they are able to not spend money on domestic labor, while at the same time, lining their pockets with our treasury in a round about way.
Most americans dont want a hand out. But they do want a fair playing field and a fighting chance. They have neither now.
And more to the point, everyone in an organization is valuable. Take the the corporation in the highrise, its a big pyramid scheme. theres the guy at the top, then below him theres a couple other guys, vice pres, ceo, cfo etc,
then another group, the board, then you have the shareholders who don’t do any work all.
then upper and lower management,
then below them even more people,
all the way down to the mail room and the overnight cleaning crew.
But nothing can function if no one takes out the trash and cleans the bathrooms. So the people who do those bottom jobs are worth a living wage that enables them to live with dignity. If the president of the company doesn’t show up the company can still operate, but if the hundreds on the lower floors don’t show up, commerce grinds to a halt.
Its often then argued that, “well those people have to be motived to work their way up” which is total BS because fact is, there can only be one or two guys at the top, regardless of how motivated the lower floors are. So its a lie. Its a pyramid scheme. All of capitalism is just a pyramid scheme. at some point, you have to have x number of people at the bottom. They are an integral part of the system, and therefore entitled to a middle class lifestyle in america. per the system that makes extreme wealth possible for some.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Jim SF, your comments remind me of the (really goofy) story of the farmer who worked and worked but couldn’t make any money. He hire an “efficiency expert,” who studied his operation and told him that most of his operation was as good as could be but his weak point was high transportation costs. If he could reduce those costs, he would do better.
The efficiency expert later ran into the farmer, and asked if his advice had worked out. The farmer replied, “Well, I tried what you suggested, but it only worked for a little while, and now I’m worse off than before.”
“What happened?” asked the efficiency expert.
“Well,” the farmer answered, “I took your advice about cutting my transportation costs. I quit feeding my horse. It worked for about two weeks, but about the time he got used to not eating, he up and died.”
Hope any farmers reading this aren’t too upset. . .
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
lol. now you’re gonna have peta at your door. hehe.
While I don’t know how many people will actually ride the thing, what I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that there will be bullet train nerds lining up along the right of way taking pictures of it. I don’t know if I could ever afford a ticket, but I’ll drive to the right of way and check it out, haha.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 9:58 am
You could take pictures from the ROW, but when you get right down to it, the best way to get a picture is from the platform.
And if it’s anything like the Shinkansen, you’ll need a ticket. Or a Suica card.
Brandon from San Diego Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:01 am
Nah, there should be plenty of bridge overpasses or valley ridges with good views!
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
You’ll undeniably be able to get decent shots from an overpass as it whooshes past. Video, definitely. But for a close-up look, the best view is still from a platform.
Spokker Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
If Fullerton becomes an HSR station, there won’t be any room on the platform. That place is railfan city. I once walked in front of one of their shots and they yelled at me. I told them it’s a public place of business and not their toy train set, so they should expect people to walk in front of their shots sometimes.
I stop if someone is taking a picture of their family or something, but I’ll be damned if I wait for someone to take a picture of a train. It’s all digital anyway you numbnuts.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
And they dont like High speed rail..its too fast they cant take a picture or write down the car numbers..and its not a”real” American train!!
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Yet they flock to Kingston RI where they can photograph and video Acela going through at 150-ish.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Well, I’m not saying railfans won’t shoot trains wherever they can. But “shoot trains as they go by” is an entirely different type of photography than shooting when the train enters the station.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Those guys like HSR!! Im poking fun at the teabag type that rags on HSR as a waste!! And I have been on Acela going thru that town..thats why all this BS from the towns along Caltrain is silly as it wont even be traveling anywhere near that fast most of the route and those NewEngland towns are nice
Brandon from San Diego Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
If it is a crowded and hurried place, I would think any photog buff or pro is silly to expect people to wait before crossing their shot. It should be their job to be quick about their shots in such circumstances, and not expect others to bend to their windy.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
There ought to be room for separate platforms, even at Fullerton. A platform for Metrolink and a platform for HSR.
And it’s silly not to expect people in your shots. Heck, it looks more like an actual train station. I suppose people standing directly in front of you would be a pain, but most platforms should be long enough for somebody to stand at one end, further away from traffic.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Not to mention there are new security rules about taking pics.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
rules that are completely misinterpreted, misunderstood or sometimes completely ignored. it depends on the station, the grumpiness of the local stationmaster, and whether the photographer is being a total jerk about it. (I’m fully in support of allowing photography, but some railfans do cross the line, just as some security people do as well.)
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:04 pm
the rules allow for railfans to some extant the thinking being that these tend to be the same people who would be most likely to notice something evil afoot before anyone else. But there are limits and station staff and security have the final word.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
well of course I wouldn’t want railfans to do anything stupid or potentially dangerous. I think most already know to avoid those situations.
however, some stations have interpreted rules as “no photos” which is ridiculous.
of course, if the Cal HSR platforms are fare gated, that would help as well.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
The final word for staff is the rules published by Amtrak. They are freely available here
http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=Page&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267362248
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 8:00 pm
Nothing in this policy limits or expands the authority of Amtrak police officers to initiate and pursue investigations, perform a pat down or frisk based upon reasonable suspicion, and/or conduct searches based upon probable cause or any recognized exception to the probable cause requirement in accordance with all legal authority
wow pat downs are really getting to be all the rage these days.
Continuing my series on trains and weather, Amtrak is shut down between Boston and New York as of 5PM EST.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/12/amtrak_shutting.html
Though I’m sure the roads and planes are immobile as well.
Jerry Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:02 pm
I’m happy that it doesn’t snow in Fresno. Or does it?
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:08 pm
sometimes but snow below 500ft elevation is rare anywhere in cali. 500-3500 not uncommon, and 3500+ a given.
jim Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
This is less than meets the eye. The action cancels one SB Acela, two NB Acelas and three regularly scheduled regionals in each direction. There may be some holiday extras canceled as well, but the bulk of today’s trains between New York and Boston left each end before the shutdown.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:19 pm
The airports closed down hours ago. It’s causing disruptions all across North America and in Europe. I’m sure there were cancellations in Asia too.
“As many Californians have discovered this week as they’ve traveled around this state, our current methods of intrastate travel don’t work. Driving takes WAY too long, and flying has become very inconvenient.”
Not sure if I buy this as I just drove from SF to LA in 6 hours (vs. propsed 2 1/2 hours via HSR) for a grand total of $70–1 1/2 tanks of gas and fries and shakes at InNOut Burger for the kiddies. Will spend roughly the same $70 heading back to SF for a grand total of $140. If I were to do this via HSR using current estimated rates of approx $108 each way then we would be staring at a round trip costing $864 for a family of four. We do this trip 3x/yr by car and would be looking at a total annual cost of approx $450 driving vs. $2600 by train. I am okay spending an extra 10-12 hours in the car each year in order to save roughly $2150 annually. This doesn’t include the added benefit of then having one’s car available to use in Souther Cal as opposed to renting which is between $50–100/day. Unless I am missing something, this is a no brainer. Sure, the price of oil will probably rise which will make gas more expensive. However, it is also likely that HSR will cost more than expected to build and operate which will in turn increase the expected cost of a roundtrip ticket. The big question is which will face more inflation over the next 10 years; the cost of a gallon of gas or the cost of a HSR ticket.
James Fujita Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
I know which choice my mother would prefer. She hates the Grapevine, and in winter it’s always iffy by car or by Amtrak motorcoach connection.
Snow can slow down trains as well, but at least you’re not the one “behind the wheel” when tracks look like this.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Yes, you’re missing something: most people don’t have four people in the car. The mean is two and the median is about one.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
and sometimes there’s two mean ones in the median. that’s when you really have to watch out.
Mark Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Fair enough, but if you are cost conscious, the math for even a single driver still favors the automobile. Nevermind the fact that you are then stuck at a train station somewhere in CA with no real means of getting around without opening up your wallet.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:49 pm
Good luck with that when gas hits $6/gallon.
The fact is that you are projecting from the core of the market for driving that route to the entire market, which simply ignores multiple market segments on the margin, including among others, (1) those who must take the real full cost of the drive into account because their car is iffy for a 12 hour round trip drive, (2) those who have a higher personal value on their time or greater personal aggravation with driving (3) and those who are traveling on company time whose employer avoids a hotel expense by purchasing the HSR ticket, as well as allowing the employee to get more work done on the train than can get done while self-chauffeuring the company car.
Binary logic in transport always ends up biased in favor of one-size-fits-all systems, which always sacrifice efficiency to systems that have a size for each need. In the real world, people always have a range of priorities and requirements, and it is not necessary to be the preferred option for each and every person in the market in order to attract a large share of the total transport market.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
and he hasn’t accounted for 800 miles of car expenses other than gas. 800 miles is almost a quarter of 3000 mile oil change. Yes you can get your oil changed for $19.95 but that’s 5 bucks. Or the allocated cost of his annual car insurance premiums. Or allocated depreciation. Or the rest of his car expenses. It’s not just how much gas you burn.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
but what of the fact that you don’t have to drive. You can’t put price on that. I love taking cabs. I love that I never have to drive a car again every if don’t want to. I have just eliminated nearly everything from my life that requires me to drive. Its too much work and its too unpleasant a waste of time. Either I can get their by bus, train, plane, ferry and cab, or I don’t go. I don’t know why anyone would want to.
Recently I went up the valley for the holiday and the first thing that struck me when I got to marysville ( a real place) was that at each intersection, it looked like this….
on one corner, a fast food drive thru, across the street on the other corner, an ugly mid century motor lodge with an ugly parking lot, on the other corner, a gas station, and on the fourth corner, was the 7-11 / Auto Zone retail strip.
car car car car. busy, noisy, and unpleasant across the board. and intersection after inersection looks like this. in town after town across the state, and really, LA is THE expample of this to beat all examples, I mean they got streets that bo on for 50 miles and each mile looks so much like the last mile you can’t even tell where you are. its a vast sea of 7-11s and gas stations. ( I mean someone really dropped the ball somewhere down there at some point)
I digress. and I forgot my point.
jimsf Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
oh yeh, driving sucks. I won’t do it.
Paulus Magnus Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 5:01 pm
How about the added value of the time you save and lack of hotel or additional paid time off needed for the days of travel? Additionally, the amount of wear and tear on the car is a hidden cost. CA’s jury duty would reimburse you at least $129.54 for that trip (using Google Maps to find the mileage) which is one-way reimbursement (I don’t get why they don’t do two way either). Since the train will most likely use yield management for ticket pricing as Amtrak and airlines do now, it is probable that a ticket booked long in advance, as a family vacation would likely be, would be much cheaper, in the realm of $40 dollars in 2010 dollars.
As for being stuck at a train station, the same thing applies to airports yet somehow I don’t see that complaint being raised against them. Of course, one can also walk to many destinations from a train station, as I have done before, which isn’t really a practical consideration with an airport.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 7:34 pm
In constant dollars, if you’re a single driver, and if the cost of everything except gas is zero, then HSR and driving will be about even, depending on whether CAHSR chooses the high-fare or low-fare option. In either case, the difference is small enough that even cost-conscious people will care about the extra hours of their time and (for some) the general unpleasantness of long drives.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Hmm, has Mark seen my previous postings (which I’m certain regular readers here are tired of seeing) about the real cost of driving and the real cost of gasoline?
Spokker Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
Continue to choose the mode of transportation that is right for you. I never plan to have children and I’m a creepy loner, so I will take the train.
But understand that your choice is influenced by a history of policy that favored the personal automobile over trains and buses. Consider how you might feel if you paid the full cost to drive your ass around. Unfortunately our chests are not transparent, so those costs may not be readily apparent.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 26th, 2010 at 11:07 pm
Your entire mindset is a suburban slurb that’s why you decide to drive.. look you’re worried about buying the kids hamburger at In and Out… we have a lot more to worry about than that.. there’s nothing to counsel you if you would like to drive your car like Mama and daddy bear good enjoy it .. There are a lot more issues than finding out where a hamburger stand is for the kids and your I-5 drive.. actually your type is most irritating thing on the drive to LA.
Elchu Reply:
December 27th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
All good points. So are these…
1. If you were on a train, you could spend 3 hours of quality time with your family, rather than having to stare at the white lines in front of you.
2. Everything people said above. Gas prices are going to rise. Train travel is infinitely more enjoyable.
3. Hidden costs on your car. Tires; oil; insurance; etc. You don’t get them on trains.
4. The environment. Do you actually want your kids breathing in LA smog?
5. “the fact that you are then stuck at a train station somewhere in CA” is not a fact, it’s utter nonsense. Even if you ignore the existing public transport networks, new bus and light rail routes will very quickly grow to feed the high speed rail. You’re not talking about Amtrak here.
6. If your car can really only manage 300 mpg, you should probably look at switching.
7. You should probably also consider feeding your kids something healthier.