Florida to Follow Wisconsin and Ohio in Abandoning HSR Funds?
Wisconsin and Ohio weren’t the only two states who elected right-wing extremists as governor on November 2. Florida elected Rick Scott, whose stance on high speed rail is hard to pin down. In recent days, however, Scott has been more vocal in his criticisms of the project, leading the Orlando Sentinel to attack Scott in a devastating editorial. After speculating about Scott’s motives in possibly opposing HSR – a desire to make President Barack Obama look bad, a desire to please his right-wing base which ideologically opposes trains – they point out that Florida is basically getting bullet trains for free:
Florida’s $2.6 billion high-speed project would be paid for almost entirely by the feds. Washington has agreed to send Florida all but $280 million of its cost. And some companies vying to run the trains indicate they’d cover the state’s share. They’re willing to do that because they believe running the Orlando-Tampa route would give them a leg up on operating a second high-speed rail line from Orlando to Miami — and other fast trains outside Florida.
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said he feared his state would have to pay for costly rail-project overruns. But meetings last month between Florida transportation officials and companies wanting to operate the trains reportedly revealed the companies’ willingness to cover any construction overages.
Wisconsin Gov.-elect Scott Walker said his state would have had to pay too much to operate and maintain its rail line. But the company that runs high-speed trains in Florida would have to operate and maintain them for 30 years. The state, Florida DOT’s Kevin Thibault told us, wouldn’t have to pick up the cost.
So this is pretty ridiculous of Scott to even consider turning this down. But because he and his party are opposed to a 21st century economy and 21st century technology, he may turn down over $2 billion in federal funding. Some of that money could find its way here to California, as did the money Wisconsin and Ohio gave up. But the FRA and the USDOT would have to act quickly – if the money is awarded by the end of this year, it makes it harder for Republicans in the House to undo that funding in 2011.
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood should demand that Scott tell him yes or no in the next few days. If he says no, then move the money to the states that want it – including us here in California.
Please make the 2 billion dollar check out to California. Thanks.
Victor Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
I second that motion, We could build a lot more track in the Central Valley with that $2 billion, Scott is Crazy to reject free money, But then He’s a Repugnican, Floridas loss is Californias gain.
Paulus Magnus Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 6:31 pm
Almost five billion when you add in Prop 1A funds, which ought to be enough to extend it from Bakersfield to Palmdale (I could easily be wrong though).
Eric M Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 6:46 pm
Bakerfield to Palmdale will be the last segment of Phase 1 to be completed
Nathanael Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:33 pm
But that’s only due to tunnelling time. It should be started relatively early to get a head start on that tunnel.
Brandi Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:01 pm
I second that. Build baby build!
rafael Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
Would it be great if Florida decided to shoot itself in the foot (yet again) and all $2 billion of their award were to be reprogrammed to California? Well, only if CHSRA decides to actually run some – initially small – number of HSR trains between Fresno and Bakersfield, at speeds of 220mph. Such operations would require subsidies yet may be necessary to build and maintain political support for additional federal funding of the rest of the starter line.
SIDEBAR: Merced simply isn’t on the route from SF to LA via Pacheco Pass. AB3034(2008) contains language that prioritizes prop 1A(2008) funds for construction of the SF-LA starter line, every other segment of the planned network is effectively “nice to have” as far as those $9 billion in state-level HSR funding go. The northern portion of the Chowchilla wye up to Merced is part of CHSRA’s plans for phase 1, but that commitment reflects CHSRA policy which is subject to change. It is not enshrined in law.
rafael Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
On a related note: Rep. John Mica (R-FL7) will take over the chairmanship of the transportation committee in the House in January. He appears to recognize the value of the California HSR project, but what he really wants is brand-new high speed tracks for the NEC.
That may not be realistic, given the high financial and – especially – the political cost that rectifying or widening the corridor in bottleneck section would entail. However, it might still make sense for California to argue that at least a significant fraction of any ARRA money that Florida ends up turning down should be reprogrammed to FRA itself.
For starters, Congress could task FRA with defining minimum performance and interoperability specs plus a certification process for PTC and corridor traffic management products, with a view to enabling mixed traffic in constrained rail corridor sections. This rulemaking would require extensive consultations with freight and passenger rail operators plus HSR planners. Unfortunately, PRIIA a.k.a. H.R.2095(110th) did not give FRA a charter to do so, primarily because Congress refused to provide sufficient funding to make that realistic. In addition, the freight majors feared – and still fear – that the PTC mandate is a Trojan horse designed to force them to cede right of way and/or slots on their tracks to accommodate additional passenger trains at reimbursement rates that don’t compensate the negative impacts on freight traffic capacity, flexibility and especially, accident liability.
Therefore, the rules should address safety issues beyond track sharing, including the risk of freight rail derailments leading to fouling of adjacent HSR track, potential follow-on accidents and los of revenue while the tracks are cleared and repaired.
IMHO, it’s unreasonable for e.g. UPRR to demand that it should be completely absolved of liability. However, it might well reduce the total federal cost of developing HSR to offer the freight majors lump sums plus a reasonable liability ceiling provided they agree to cede part of their ROW in the desired sections, (integration with) corridor-level PTC protection plus a reasonable regime of challenge inspections of track geometry and rolling stock maintenance, conducted by FRA and the HSR operator. If the FRA’s technical standards are met, the HSR operator(s) would be required to give the freight operator a “good neighbor reward” in the form of a previously negotiated sum in cash. Sounds complicated, but railways are cashflow-based businesses while Congress prefers to grant one-off lump sums.
For reciprocity, the above would also apply to the HSR operator(s) with inspections carried out by FRA and the freight operator(s).
If all of this sounds excessively generous to the freight rail industry, consider the cost of the alternatives for HSR planners in those urban bottleneck sections. Also, as long as the long-distance trucking industry isn’t required to pay its fair share of road construction and maintenance, there is no level playing field in the ground freight market.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
That may not be realistic, given the high financial and – especially – the political cost that rectifying or widening the corridor in bottleneck section would entail.
The only significant bottleneck on the NEC is between Kearny NJ and Manhattan. The project to alleviate that problem was just canceled. The rest of the corridor has enough capacity …forever.
Nathanael Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:34 pm
The only significant *capacity* bottleneck. There’s a major speed-and-safety bottleneck in Baltimore.
synonymouse Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:34 am
With the shift of districts in Congress to conservative western areas the UP can look forward to having more friends in government. I can’t see why the UP would want to have anything to do with envious, imperious, eminent-domain-happy PB-CHSRA. Especially when the UP can foresee that the hsr will be a fiscal failure and burden and that attitudes will our soon sour.
Buffett is just a speculator with zippo real world railroad experience. If the supply-siders really do come to dominate they just might countenance western railfroad M&A and overrule the antitrust re-regulators. I’ll bet the UP would love to get their hands on that Route 66 line.
Nathanael Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:35 pm
Wow, you are even more nuts than I thought. Suffice it to say that your investment analysis is poor.
synonymouse Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:54 pm
I assume by investment analysis you are referring to my suggestion that the UP would be interested in a dominant merger with the Santa Fe. Of course they would and they would keep the strongest routes and spin off or mothball the weakest. Economically it makes sense as the combined rr would enjoy the capitalization required to upgrade the trunks.
To supply siders and confirmed laissez-faire partisans this is simply Darwininian survival of the fittest and culling the weak. The CHSRA dumb-down would not even be in the running. But the Santa Fe route to Chicago is the prize as is the Sunset Route to Texas and the South.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 3:14 pm
No, by “investment analysis” he means that Buffett is the opposite of “just a speculator,” has proposed regulations on investment making speculations impossible, and has been stressing long-term investment for value since he was a teenager.
This is starting to worry me. One advantage of parceling small amounts out to lots of states is that it puts a stake in the ground for a real national HSR system down the road. If too many other states reject their money (particularly battleground and/or “red” states), it becomes easier for HSR opponents to mischaracterize the whole effort as political (i.e. pork for states that vote for Democrats). It would be really nice to have two complete starter lines (Fresno-Bakersfield and Tampa-Orlando), one on each coast , connecting a pair of mid-size cities with nearby major cities (LA, SF; Miami) ready for a second wave of expansion. I think that improves long-term prospects for the HSR network in California, and nationally.
Getting more funds for now but ending up with an isolated Central Valley line as HSR dies as a project nationally is good for neither California nor the country.
jimsf Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Im not worried about that myself because I know california will find a way to build out a full high speed network over time regardless of what other states do. Its just like of a california destiny. Just one more thing that sets us apart and keeps us ahead. Once californians get a taste of it, they are gonna demand it serve the whole state.
Cascadian Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 5:10 pm
Where’s the state money going to come from, given the current budgetary problems (not that any other states are any better off)? Big projects like this almost never get built without federal help.
jimsf Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
People act as if the “current” budgetary problems all that matters. I’m talking about the future of california. Do you know how many times we’ve been through this “the sky is falling” scenario? AGain and again. That’s why I just ignore it now and keep moving forward. This is nothing. In the late 80s and early 90s the state was broke, and had also been ravaged by drought. I hardly recognized the place. Things were falling apart. Next thing you know, money was falling out of the sky ( along with rain) and cities and counties everywhere were investing, beautifying, expanding, landscaping, rail service expanded, transit of all kinds expanded. These bumps in the road are common. When californians decided they wanted rail, they passed propositions to specifically fund and expand rail. Since then, they have used that rail in constantly increasing numbers, record setting numbers. And once they decide they like high speed rail, and they will, they will do exactly the same thing. And by that time, the current crop of republican bs sleazbags will be long gone. I’m not concerned in the least. Been there, done it.
Al Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Nicely said.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
YES 2 or 3 systems need be under development simultaneously to get any real federal funding otherwise it is just some state project that everybody else will scream about having to pay for.
Spokker Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Well, at least the incoming freshman congressmen have some good, specific plans for cutting the deficit they crow so much about.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Good, like having lay citizens try to review NSF grants?
Donk Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 10:41 pm
I couldn’t believe when I saw that one. That guy is a complete embarrassment to himself.
It takes a panel of expert reviewers hours to go through each grant that is submitted to the NSF, and only the top 15% or so are funded, based on their merits and their broader benefit to society. How the hell could a lay person have any idea what a grant is about based on the title and the abstract. Worse, the NSF is probably the funding agency with the most integrity of them all – the guy is really reaching to find something to go after here and has no idea what he is talking about.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
Yes, exactly. Ironically, the grants they want to defund are the ones that are actually useful. The soccer player ranking study they got all riled up over is actually a study of how to model individuals’ contributions to a team, useful in not just sports but also corporations. In contrast, research that doesn’t have applications, e.g. what I do, gets a free pass.
Nathanael Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 8:50 pm
I suspect that it’s not that he’s reaching — it’s more likely that he hates science, like so many Republicans. It’s the very fact that the NSF has integrity which is the problem for him. If it were a patronage agency dispensing grants to the politically favored, he’d love it.
Spokker Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 10:48 pm
Ask Rand Paul. He has some very specific plans for cutting spending. He told them all to Eliot Spitzer on CNN.
PeakVT Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
it puts a stake in the ground for a real national HSR system down the road
One could make also make the argument that the sooner a successful system is completed between major cities, the sooner the rest of the country will get clued in. I think Florida’s plan is pretty lame for a number of reasons, and I remain worried that if completed it would under-perform and hurt the HSR cause.
I’ll gladly take the $2 billion for us. But seriously, is this Scott character really going to be that stupid and essentially kill FLA HSR?
Don’t think it will happen, but their loss would definetely be our gain. Perhaps our starter line could be further built west to Gilroy.
James Fujita Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:49 pm
Attempting Gilroy might be pushing our luck. What if we tried Bakersfield to Merced? At least it would move Dennis Cardoza to the pro-HSR column. Shuttle buses to Yosemite and UC Merced.
YesonHSR Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
All the deniers and critics will still call it a railroad to nowhere if all it did was go between Bakersfield and Merced… it needs to connect either Los Angeles or San Francisco even in the pre-full-service mode.
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:38 am
I’d almost advocate for sac-bfd. I know that’s not the place, but it would continue that relatively straight easy shot. And connect the state capital.
wu ming Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 2:20 am
yes!
YesonHSR Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
It’s not going to happen.. Florida is not Ohio or Wisconsin when it comes to this funding. It’s true high speed rail, with equipment manufacturers seriously involved and major corporations i.e. Disney backing and wanting it built. He’s playing a little politics game and he knows he cannot stop it or he will be seriously burned, He is just playing for the best deal and at this point even if he said no tomorrow morning I don’t know if there’s enough time to redirect the funds before December 31 and a new Congress. I don’t know what would happen if he decided against it after January. I still think the money could be redirected because it would take a new act of Congress signed by the president and the Senate to change everything.
Brandon from San Diego Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
I agree, this will not happen. Florida will not reject the money.
And, I also Florida keeps it too for the same reasons as others here have cited. Plus, every corner of the country needs to wean itself off foreign oil…. not just California and the high IQ states.
Al Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:37 pm
It seems to me that there are certain parts of it that will take years longer than others. The tunnels, for one. If at all possible, start on those, so that the whole thing can open without having 90% finished and waiting for years because the hardest parts was started last.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Building the Wye and West to Gilroy is a tunneling section, but it can’t be done until (1) the EIR/EIS is finished to the north and then (2) the Wye alignment is chosen. The other main tunneling section is between San Fernando and Sylmar, which it the direction they are extending toward now.
jimsf Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
does anyone have a link to that old map that showed the color coded route elevated/tunnel/grade
Joey Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
The Google Maps one? I’ve got it – I’ve lost the original KML but I could repackage it if you want, minus the stations and other markers which I never downloaded.
jimsf Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:56 pm
if you can post it/link to it whatever. maybe its still floating around somewhere. Ill do a search. thanks
Joey Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 11:49 pm
<a href=http://www.game-warden.com/earthdefence/staff_files/blowfish/cahsrgooglemaps.kmzhere ya go.
jimsf Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 2:56 pm
Im just wanting to look at the tunnel sections for pacheco for bfd pmd and for pmd-lax
railwayage some good stuff in there. Nice to browse through. Some mention of the states rejecting hsr money. And a note about the growing passenger rail car market.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Some other news from NARP, including more service at a station on the NEC because of increased demand. How does the “nobody rides trains anymore” crowd explain this, and Amtrak’s continued increases in patronage over the years? And this is with those “slow, heavy trains” that are supposed to be so out of date that no one would ride them. . .which leads to the question, why would anyone think HSR wouldn’t attract a crowd once it starts to run?
http://www.narprail.org/cms/index.php/hotline/more/hotline_685/
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
Slow heavy only means something to railgeeks. Passengers don’t care if the cars are heavy or light or hauled by an FRA compliant locomotive or not. They care that the train is faster than driving.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
You’re correct of course. My comment was directed at the critics, specifically of rail in general, who say, “No one rides trains.” Those “slow, heavy, olde-tyme” trains still perform well enought to be finding a crowd today, despite what appear to be fearsome efforts to kill rail in all forms. And as noted, if the “slow, heavy, olde-time” trains are able to gain customers now, what will happen with a truly fast train, running on a dedicated new line?
Mad Park Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Faster, yes, but more comfortable and pleasant as well. NOT a glorified Greyhound or A320 running at 300 kph, but a mode of transport with some style, comfort, amenities and elan.
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:48 am
amen to that.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 9:07 pm
Passengers care about frequency and cost, too. For a commuter train, FRA compliance forces fares up and off-peak frequency down. For an intercity train, the effect is smaller, but still noticeable.
Mad Park Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Absolutely, but for a very small increase in initial cost of manufacturing the train, we can gain revenue with comfort and style. If HSR is “more of the same” there will be little other than speed to draw passengers; “Comfort Class” and “Elan Class” will add substantial revenue, viz Business Class here in the NW on our Talgos.
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
amen to that. again.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Ironically, I think that “comfort class” is either cost-free, or expensive; it’s never cheap. Either it involves nicer seats, which is approximately cost-free, or it requires a reduction in seating density, which requires proportionally raising spending on rolling stock and operations.
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
that only matters once the system reaches full capacity to where every inch is needed. Itll be a couple decades before that happens at which point the next rolling stock purchase can be planned accordingly.
Was this thing’s ridership just banking on Disney World visitors?
Isaac Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
The business-men/women going directly for the Orlando Airport to the Convention Center might be important as well.
Isaac Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I meant “from the Orlando Airport”
Spokker Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
I thought the Florida plan was awful. Weren’t they reprimanded for not planning for good commuter service and local transit?
Isaac Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:43 am
Apparently, Orlando is trying to solve that flaw.
Tampa has also plans to expand local transit, but they’ve been delayed recently.
http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/storage/pi-docs/HSRProjectSummary121410.pdf
Best.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 1:18 am
If they can put in a closed platform to platform rail transfer station where the Sunrail alignment is crossed by the HSR, Orlando gets a big upgrade in connectivity.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
I haven’t seen anyone even try to defend the business case for the initial segment. Every time someone asks about ridership, the response is “eventually it will go to Miami!”.
Reminds me of the DesertXpress people claiming “Eventually it will go to LA!”.
I’m not saying lines don’t have to start somewhere, but some more concrete plans for the portion that is supposed to actually be worthwhile would seem to be a prerequisite.
Matthew Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
I think DesertXpress has a reasonably concrete plan for connecting to CAHSR at Palmdale, and for operating Las Vegas to Victorville in the meantime. Similarly, there have been studies done for the segment from Orlando to Miami. One step at a time.
MGimbel Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Speaking of DesertXpress, the company’s top executive is retiring:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/dec/17/desertexpress-executive-retires-high-speed-rail-pr/
Spokker Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
The article makes it sound like his decision to retire is something sinister.
Risenmessiah Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 7:05 pm
Not exactly. Far as I can tell, there was a desire to connect Tampa with Orlando because that is the highest growth area in Florida (urban growth). But then, because of ROW issues, the project became connecting Tampa’s downtown with Orlando’s ever increasing airport. Add in a stop for the Mouse and it had all the political backing you needed. In the end it’s going to end up as a sort of American version of Bangkok’s SkyTrain or Heathrow Express.
Now, given that Orlando gets plenty of tourists who might ride it a stop or two it’s a great promotional tool for HSR…but it’s not what we are trying to do in CA.
Spokker Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Looking at Florida, it sounds like they have a narrow range of interests when it comes to HSR.
In California we are trying to do several things. Connect LA-SF, connect the Central Valley to the rest of the state and improve existing rail and transit (Prop 1A funds for connecting transit and shared use on the Peninsula and LA-Anaheim). Then there is phase 2 if it ever comes to that.
Florida’s plan just screams “tourist train” to me.
Risenmessiah Reply:
December 17th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
I think it does scream tourist train. But again, given how many people from all over fly in to spend time with zee Mouse I think it’s a great showcase for state of the art technology. Ultimately Florida says they want to build the line from Orlando International to Miami and connect the state’s big population centers. But I think everyone realized that would be heavy lifting (even Charlie Crist) so instead they attempted to do the reverse of the CA Plan. That said, CAHSR could have started with a segment between SF and Sac and probably relied less on hand outs. But the politicians could agree on anything but LA to SF.
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:54 am
Disney is good for showcasing things though. I remember seeing the first RCA Video Tape Recorder there on display in Tomorrowland in 1978. It cost about 1200 bucks and was the size of carryon luggage. And everyone ooh’d and aahh’d and then ran out and bought them.
Wow!!
The Wisconsin line was almost free for the State (annual costs range were $750K to $7.5M, penauts for the Wisconsin DOT budget), but this is almost a zero risk project for Florida!!! (if the private interest is as stated, that is).
BTW, reading the comments on the Orlando Sentinel article I realize 2 things:
1. Some people should improve their reading comprehension skills, they’re still asking for private capital to step up!!!
2. For the ones worried about too many stops along the route, please get informed of what a “Express Train” is and how it works (about 45 minutes Orlando-Tampa I red somewhere).
A couple of recent videos about Florida’s HSR project:
http://vimeo.com/17108868
http://vimeo.com/15081140
Who exactly has the power to reallocate Florida’s high speed rail money should they decide to turn it back? Can Ray LaHood do it on his own or is the process more complicated? If it takes an act of congress to stop any reallocation– that seems unlikely in the short term especially if the Senate and Obama show just a little backbone.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 am
Unless rescinded by majorities in both the House and the Senate, and signed into law by the President, or rescinded by vote-proof majorities in both the House and the Senate, the Secretary of Transport has wide discretion in re-allocating it, but it still has to go through the regular channels, and reallocating it to fill up applications that were partly but not entirely funded is the quickest way to get the money disbursed.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 22nd, 2010 at 1:22 am
“vote proof”, uhm, veto proof.
I would be astonished if Gov. Elect Walker rejects the funds – we are talking some $2.4 BILLION of federal money with little state funding needed for the Tampa to Orlando segment – but we are in a very strange period in US politics. We have Governor Elects rejecting large amounts of federal money, mostly to spite Obama and score political points with the far right. Which the voters of those states will come to regret when gas hits $4 or $5 a gallon.
But, remember, the re-direction of the Wisconsin and Ohio funds were entirely stimulus funds which went to matching the request for already selected applications that were not fully funded in the original awards. Most of those are now fully funded, so the FRA might have to select additional applications to redistribute the Florida funds -which would result in delay in obligating the shelf life limited stimulus funds.
It also should be pointed out that the Florida funds come from 2 funding pots:
Stimulus – original award of $1.25 Billion; just supplemented with up to $342 million of re-directed funds.
FY2010 – $800 million for Tampa-Orlando, $8 million for Orlando-Miami planning and environmental study.
There were a number of FY2010 state applications which were selected but not fully funded. I am a supporter of the CA HSR project, but there are a lot of other projects which will result in improved service in 2-4 years, not the 2020 projected for LA to SF. Those conventional Amtrak corridors deserve to get more funding too. There is no single tidy list that I have found of the FY2010 HSIPR applications, only the selections, but assembling from info I found elsewhere, see below.
Michigan – requested $308 million for Chi-Detroit, namely buying and upgrading the 135 mile Kalamazoo-Dearborn section. Got $150 million. While MI is struggling to get the 20% matching funds, the additional $158 million will upgrade the 135 mile segment. Amtrak owns 97 miles of the corridor, so most of the corridor would not be owned by freight companies – and thus available for future true HSR upgrades.
CT – requested $220 million for New Haven to Springfield, got $120 million.
NY – requested $138 million, got $28.5 million.
NC – requested $290 million, got $22 million.
NJ – requested $885 million for NEC improvements and Portal Bridge replacement, got nothing. The 100+ year old 2 track Portal swing bridge in northern NJ on the NEC, badly needs to be replaced and is due to be replaced by a 3 level high fixed bridge, but not clear where the funding is going to come from in the wake of the ARC cancellation.
FL – $250 million for the FEC corridor on the Fl east coast which could operate at 90 mph in short order. Got nothing.
I doubt that the Florida funds will get re-directed, but if they do: 1) give most of the stimulus funds to CA HSR, some to Ch-StL corridor if possible. Wouldn’t hurt if the PA Keystone East corridor was selected this time and got a good sized chunk of the $489 million application to bring the line up to 125 mph operation. 2) give most of the $800 million of FL FY10 grants to MI, CT, NY, NC, NJ.
Has Walker said he’ll reject the funds, or is this just speculation?
Semi off topic, but at least it tells us we are not alone in having idiots who really do propose a high-speed bus system:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8016292/High-speed-Superbus-to-be-unveiled.html
My first thought is to ask how this thing will handle snow and ice at 150 mph. That doesn’t bother trains much, but it plays havoc on any sort of road system; we just found that out (again) this week with only two inches of snow, which was surprisingly slippery even for a veteran bad weather driver like me. Second, who are you going to use for drivers at that speed, even in good weather? Third, there are comments about this thing running on dedicated lanes, apparently at least some of new construction. How is that supposed to save money? Capacity, 23 passengers. Maximum test speed so far, 50 mph. Government money invested, over $7 million.
Phooey!
And not only that, it’s getting harder and harder to write and/or produce satire, the real world is getting more ridiculous all the time.
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 12:06 am
We have people building funny prototypes in the US, too; at least schoolkids won’t be late with this one, ho, ho, ho, ho!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/7928384/The-jet-powered-school-bus.html
Isaac Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 8:41 am
I can’t read the article, but it looks like kind of a joke. Maybe April fools day is the December 18th in Britain! (BTW, here in Spain that day is the 28th of this month).
BTW, talking about high speed in Spain, today is an special day:
http://www.thereader.es/en/spain-news-stories/5088-Tickets-for-Madrid-Valencia-high-speed-rail-link-on-sale-tomorrow.html
The kings, the PM, regional leaders and mayors starting the inagurational journey:
http://www.20minutos.tv/video/wzBDRV04-los-reyes-inauguran-el-ave-madrid-valencia
Best.
thatbruce Reply:
December 20th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Its a glorified limo designed by someone who grew up with the Thunderbirds. As for handling snow and ice at 150mph (240kph), it’ll do so most likely the same way that current road vehicles properly handle snow and ice at those speeds; by slowing down in such conditions. 150mph in good weather on good roads isn’t that fast; you get plenty of people in Germany doing that, legally, each day with no special training.
Check out this article about the fallout from the Wisconsin HSR debacle. Scott Walker really screwed the state big time. It almost makes me feel bad to take their money…
http://redgreenandblue.org/2010/12/15/off-the-rails-expensive-fallout-continues-from-gop-train-rejection/
D. P. Lubic Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 12:23 am
No, no, don’t feel bad–the “cheeseheads” did this to themselves.
Other articles in the series are just as interesting, along with their following comments:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2010/11/09/off-the-rails-ii-gop-misreading-ayn-rand/#comments
http://redgreenandblue.org/2010/11/12/off-the-rails-iii-richard-branson-is-john-galt/
Like you, I hate to think of the hurt for the people involved, but that’s how it goes in a war with idealogues or any other kind of war. I guess we have to chalk that up to “collateral damage.”
I wish I could laugh at this as I sometimes do. :-(
Jeremy Bloom Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Thanks for linking to us! We’ve got a follow-up to this article: http://redgreenandblue.org/2010/12/18/off-the-rails-will-florida-choose-anti-train-ideology-over-job-creation/
Guess what? All of Scott’s reasons for questioning the rail line make no sense when you look at the full picture. What a surprise!
jimsf Reply:
December 18th, 2010 at 7:59 am
I don’t feel bad for them one iota. The people of wisconsin elected him. Either directly, or by not taking the time to go out and vote. Let this be a glaring example for all to see. As for taking the money, other states, not so much wisconsin mabye, but new york, florida and texas in particular, are california’s direct competition for business, federal dollars, and tourism, and any loss for them is a gain for us. Sink or swim.
Nathanael Reply:
December 21st, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Feel bad for the people of Madison, who rejected him, but were outweighed by the rural vote.
sfo weather delays today lo… They are interviewing people at the airport. hahaha. People are saying, things like ” I could have just driven to LA” lol. ha ha. That 59 dollar ticket isn’t looking like such a great deal now is it?
wu ming Reply:
December 19th, 2010 at 2:23 am
seriously. SMF gets fogged in nearly every winter too. every year this happens, right around the same time.