Now THAT’S a Boondoggle

Jun 7th, 2010 | Posted by

There is a longstanding double standard in California infrastructure planning. Freeway widening projects are simply accepted, even though their costs are enormous, even though they usually fail to improve travel conditions, and even though they have significant impacts on communities. I’ve argued before that in the case I’m most familiar with, the widening of Interstate 5 in Orange County in the late 1980s/early 1990s, caused impacts the community found it could live with. But the eminent domain was much more significant than anything contemplated under HSR on the Peninsula, for example.

Few Californians bat an eye at the multibillion dollar costs of these freeway projects But when it comes to high speed rail, every dollar is scrutinzed, every projected rider is closely examined, any uncertainty, any problem, any discrepancy is seen as a sign the project is a horrible wasteful boondoggle that will render the Peninsula uninhabitable and destroy California’s budget and economy.

The hypocrisy stems not from any hard numbers or facts, but from a basic bias. Many Californians are trained to see freeways as necessary – so vital that we don’t even need to ask any basic questions about their value.

Well, it’s time we started. There’s a huge freeway widening project being proposed in San Diego County that strikes me as a true boondoggle – a colossal waste of money that will never be recovered, throwing good money after bad on a facility that increases our dependence on oil, while alternatives can be funded for a fraction of the cost.

The project is a massive six-lane widening of Interstate 5 on a nearly 20-mile stretch between Oceanside and La Jolla. Much of this would overlay a major widening project just north of the 5/805 “Merge” that was done about 10 years ago. Here’s the overview:

Interstate 5 would grow by as many as six lanes — including a roadway-within-a-roadway for car pools, buses and toll-paying solo drivers — under a plan crafted by transportation officials.

Four lanes would be built along the middle of the freeway between La Jolla Village Drive and north Oceanside, similar to the express-lane network on Interstate 15. Two conventional lanes could be added to the regular segment of the coastal freeway as well.

Caltrans plans to release an environmental study on the project as soon as late June and then stage a series of public hearings. Cost estimates for the expansion range from $3.3 billion to $4.5 billion.

The size and cost of this project is jaw-dropping. It would resemble the massive reconstruction of Interstate 5 done in Orange County, started in 1989 and is nearing completion over 20 years later in Buena Park near the LA/OC line. Caltrans is confident that the ridership is there:

Daily traffic on the 30-mile stretch between San Diego and Oceanside averages 700,000 vehicles, from short hops to long-distance commutes. Caltrans expects that figure to swell to a million cars by 2030.

Has anyone examined these projections? Has Senator Alan Lowenthal determined whether they pass his smell test? Has Elizabeth Alexis performed her in-depth econometric analysis? Has the State Auditor determined whether there’s enough funding, and if not, when can we expect her breathless “oh my god the sky is falling this project is DOOOOOOMED!!!” report on the San Diego County I-5 boondoggle?

I’m not asking those questions to be snarky. For example, this proposal is not fully funded:

Half the money needed for construction would come from TransNet sales tax revenue. SANDAG wants to secure the rest from state and federal sources.

The exact cost hinges on the number of lanes built and the layout. Caltrans officials say the soon-to-be-released environmental study will lay out four options.

This is very similar to the situation facing HSR. It’s why the State Auditor published her misleading and flawed report saying the HSR project has a funding problem. So either we can expect her to publish a similar report slamming this proposal, or we’re going to have to ask some very tough and uncomfortable questions of the State Auditor about the biases that went into the HSR report.

As for Sen. Lowenthal, if Caltrans is going to ask the state to fund this, surely he would want to ensure that the numbers pan out. After all, he’s demanding the same of the HSR project.

Further, the massive cost is intended to be paid partly through tolls, and that is looking shaky:

Recent U.S. Census figures show that the percentage of commuters in the county who carpool or vanpool has dropped to 13 percent from 15 percent in 2000. SANDAG officials have reported that traffic counts on I-15, including the FasTrak lanes, have dipped during the recession — a trend that other toll road operators have also noted.

The drop in traffic has raised questions about whether toll roads or high-occupancy lanes are worth building, but transportation planners say they will eventually pay off, once the economy fully rebounds.

Whereas we have a huge pile of evidence from around the world showing HSR meets its ridership projects and pays its own operating costs, we also have plenty of evidence from here in California indicating that tolling doesn’t quite work as a method of funding new lanes. In the 1990s a private contractor built toll carpool lanes in the 91 freeway’s most heavily trafficked portion, between the 55 freeway in Anaheim and the 71 freeway in Corona. If you’ve ever been caught in traffic here, you know this is one of the epic traffic jams in all California. But the 91 toll lanes failed to turn a profit, and the Orange County Transportation Authority had to bail them out and take over the system. The other toll roads in Orange County aren’t faring much better.

Surely you’d think those experiences would lead the HSR critics to flock to the I-5 project and run their fine-toothed combs through the project. So far, I’m not seeing that happen. Why not?

The answer ought to be obvious. It’s not about the accuracy of ridership projections, or about finances, or about benefit to the community at all. HSR is being attacked because people cannot bring themselves to accept the fact that California cannot have broadly shared economic prosperity in the 21st century without fast passenger trains. HSR has much, much less impact on its communities than this insane freeway project will have, but HSR is the one getting all the controversy while this wacko boondoggle skates on by.

The difference is that HSR critics see freeways as perfectly normal and legitimate things, and cannot imagine a world where they are not the primary means of travel. They see passenger rail as optional, as a toy, as a gimmick, as something designed by people who, for whatever unknown reason, are bent on destroying their communities.

It’s not about the numbers at all. It’s about an unwillingness to part with preconceived notions.

Importantly, there is an alternative to this costly I-5 project. And it’s passenger rail:

“Six new freeway lanes?” San Diego Councilman Todd Gloria wrote on Twitter. “No thanks. Prefer $ be used to extend trolley & bike lanes.” …

The San Diego Association of Governments and other agencies are also talking about major improvements to the coastal rail line. Transit officials continue to seek federal funds to complete the construction of a second set of tracks and on related improvements. The estimated cost: $1.3 billion.

Only parts of the route are currently double-tracked — and that severely inhibits operations. Once a second rail line is complete, that opens the door to more Amtrak and Coaster commuter train runs, officials say.

Other local residents understand the need for building light rail and commuter rail instead of spending billions more on yet another I-5 widening project:

That is just amazing. Three years after widening Interstate 5 to be the widest roadway in America we need to do it again? I don’t think so.

Really, with thousands of gallons of oil pouring into the Gulf of Mexico every day, with two wars stemming directly from the “need” for more oil, with nuclear problems in the Mideast because of, yes, oil, with global warming threatening in particular those on the immediate coastline, it’s still “let’s build more roadway for billions of dollars”?

Let’s get off this oil dependency. Come on, people, build a light rail-based system that works to move us, not more cement.

DOUGLAS LAPPI
Del Mar

Another resident, this time in Solana Beach, had a similar take back in January when this project first arose:

It is hard to know where to begin the objections that many of us have to both of these proposed projects, but let me try:

1) You cannot escape gridlock by “pouring more concrete.” Just look at Los Angeles.

2) Residents living near the present freeway are assaulted by noise and air pollution that I believe violates present California and U.S. EPA limits.

3) Jack Hegenauer and the Clean and Green team of Solana Beach have made the assessment that 60 percent of the greenhouse gases generated in our city come from traffic on I-5, which Caltrans wants to expand by 50 percent, in violation of state law AB232.

4) Twenty years of construction in the North County will result in 20 years of gridlock: Is this all for the sake of our descendants?

5) Kevin Costner had it right, “If you build it, they will come!” Every freeway expansion in world history has led to increases of traffic, leaving things no better off.

Please join with me, with members of PLAGUE and all clear-thinking citizens in opposing this grotesque expansion of our freeways. It is time to get smarter about transportation and not rely on thinking from the 1950s.

If $1.3 billion were spent on double-tracking the Coaster, and $1.2 billion spent on extending the SD Trolley to UCSD and University Towne Centre, you’d be able to take a LOT of traffic off of I-5 and provide capacity to handle new growth without having to spend $3 to $4 billion on this freeway widening project.

Most importantly, you’d be spending money on building a transportation system that reduces, not increases, our dependence on oil. A system that can be powered by renewable energy (if you electrified the Coaster track, that is) and reduce pollution and carbon emissions. Finally, if you add in HSR along the I-15 corridor to downtown SD, you provide yet another option for alternative travel on the key north-south corridors in San Diego County.

It’s good to see that these questions are being asked by people in San Diego County. But where are the rest of the transportation critics? Those who are so quick to interrogate the HSR project ought to be right there on Caltrans about this true boondoggle. Or else we might start wondering what’s really driving their unfair and often unwarranted criticism of HSR.

  1. Dan S.
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 18:53
    #1

    I would have to agree that freeway projects are just accepted here in America as a fact-of-life. Everyone depends on their car to get around, so it’s (intellectually) easy to put up with the road-building nuisance when you think your way-of-life is dependent on roads. A tougher question is how to change the minds of Americans on this issue. The elephant in the room is that eventually our artificially low cost of gasoline can’t sustain itself, and the cost of driving will finally force us out of our cars. Unfortunately, we as a nation are great at ignoring elephants.

    I think Obama has had plenty of opportunities to address this issue with a national strategy (the wars in the Middle East, the economic collapse, the Gulf oil spill are all spinnable in this direction) but he’s not proven himself to be able to get in front of any issue at all so far. So I think we are probably at the mercy of the oil market again on this one, and we should all just pray for the price of oil to go up and stay up and never come back again.

  2. political_incorrectness
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 19:13
    #2

    Lucily, some people now realize and are speaking out about wanting interurban transit. This would certainly help HSR’s case in San Diego if there was more light rail and more Coaster service, along with an improved Pacific Surfliner. I would like to see what would happen if you cut I-5 off from I-8 to the Coronado Highway over San Diego Bay. What if Highway 94 and 163 were cut off @ I-8 and I-805? Either that or when you reach a frequent transit zone, start tolling people there. The only way I see of us getting off cars is make driving less convenient. SoCal has been stuck on the attitude of limited access highways are the only way to go. In order to reduce vehicle congestion, a good arterial network does wonders. Especially if there is a median for BRT or LRT expansion and leads to more livable areas.

    I-5 does not need more widening. What San Diego County needs is improved transit service which can lead to much more economic development through TODs near light rail with improved communities. There has been a discrimination against transit and I think we need an affirmative action program to reverse it.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    We could start by congestion tolling the most heavily trafficked segments in SD and use that to help build up the mass transit networks. SANDAG may even have the money to start on the rail projects, though there might need to be another vote to approve reprogramming the funds.

    Matthew F. Reply:

    Except you can’t phrase it like that: You would have to dedicate the tolling money to freeway construction and maintenance, and then kind of in the background start using more TransNet funding for mass transit. Same effect, more palatable framing.

    rafael Reply:

    The I-15 managed lanes porkfest already underway is another example of the strength of the highway construction lobby. It is nuking the ROW that CHSRA was hoping to use between Escondido and Miramar. Ostensibly, its primary purpose is to provide more capacity for trucking. San Diego county’s only commercial harbor in National City is used for importing cars. Ironically, distributing those around the country constitutes the bulk of BNSF’s remaining business in SD county.

    There is no freight train service between the LA/LB harbors and San Diego, BNSF sold the connector between Fullerton and Orange to SCRRA a long time ago. In fact, it only owns the tracks between San Diego and National City these days, everything else is trackage rights.

    On the passenger side, note that transit has an indirect benefit: no additional road traffic and no additional demand for parking in the destination city.

    rafael Reply:

    Speaking of boondoggles: will the upcoming $11 billion water bond qualify? About 80% of the captured fresh water in the state is used for agriculture and half of that for low-margin crops like rice, alfalfa and pasture. How about converting part of the west side of the southern CV into a giant solar power farm instead?

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    It’s already on the ballot. I would be surprised if it passed, but you never know.

    Dan S. Reply:

    I have no idea if that’s a boondoggle or not, but maybe we here on this list should be careful about condoning the practice of throwing that word around so freely! CA does produce the nation’s most valuable agricultural output on a state-by-state-basis at $36.2 billion in 2008. On the face of it, making an $11 billion investment to help support a $36 billion-per-year industry doesn’t sound super crazy. (Note that I actually have zero knowledge about this ballot thingie at all though. I’m happy to admit that.)

    http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/statistics/

    Anyway, I thought we liked infrastructure spending around here? ;-)

  3. Caelestor
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 19:24
    #3

    On the positive side, the internet has convinced many younger voters of the benefits of public transit. Eventually this country will come to its senses…

    Peter Reply:

    Yeah, but “eventually” will likely be too late…

    YesonHSR Reply:

    HSR has come about just as the Internet is becoming the main news source…good and bad..alot of this negative and digging up every little item that really means nothing for HSR would have never made it to the print media..In the past Nimbys and others would have to write letters to the editor to get there view out, now they can bomb the internet with all this misinformation in very little time and at will.

  4. Roger Christensen
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 19:41
    #4

    One of the sad realities has been that in order to sell transit you have to offer something to the devil. Measure R passed because it gave every LA County region what they wanted. So West LA finally gets rail and the Antelope Valley gets highway widening it wants. I am a believer in not allowing the perfect destroy the good but I think it’s time to change the paradigm. How many cement horrors have been built for just a sliver of transit?

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    That deal is worth it because of the massive expansion of passenger rail transportation Measure R produced. This boondoggle in San Diego doesn’t come with those benefits.

  5. YesonHSR
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 19:42
    #5

    Its a big double standard…I guess because the freeways are using the open space between lanes it not putting anthing new next to someone as HSR is…and yes where are the Reason types when it comes to spending this money on a big Boondogggle?? I would think a picture of a HSR ROW supplanted over this wide freeway would show which system is the most cost effective and provides the most benfit for the dollar

    rafael Reply:

    Maybe someone should put up some billboards of an HSR train in California livery, next to I-5 in southern OC and northern SD county, with the text “Void where prohibited”.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    or with “……you’d be there by now”

  6. Peter
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 19:46
    #6

    So, Elizabeth, WILL you be studying the ridership studies for the I-5 widening? Or do you and the rest of CARRD truly just care about your backyards?

    Thank you for calling them out, Robert.

  7. Eric L
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 20:27
    #7

    So let’s do the math here, $4 billion/20 miles = $200 million/mile. What is it for HSR? $40 billion/400 miles ($100 million/mile)? But I’m not sure what the capacity of the HSR line will be. Freeway lanes typically have 2 second headways and an average close to 1 person per vehicle, so 3 lanes each way is 5400 pphpd. So HSR is supposed to support 5 minute headways or 12 trains/hour/direction, but how big are the trains? Will they hold 500 people?

    Caelestor Reply:

    I don’t think capacity matters at all. It’s your commute time that counts. And frankly, driving during peak hours is atrocious, still don’t know how you guys put up with that.

    P.S. HSR is not designed to be commuter rail.

    Peter Reply:

    You could implement electrified commuter rail along the I-5 corridor (I’m not that familiar with the area, so please don’t shoot me) and easily get similar capacity with less ROW as widening the stupid freeway.

    Peter Reply:

    200m Siemens Velaro holds 536 seats. 200m Siemens Velaro E holds 404 seats.

    Note that CHSRA is planning to be able to run double-length trains. So they’re capable of over 1000 seats per train.

    Rafael Reply:

    The bi-level Japanese E4Max has a whopping 1634 seats in the full-length 16-car configuration, thanks to 3+2 seating in economy class. This is not as onerous as it sounds, the shinkansen lines have a wide loading gauge, which permits wide car bodies. Also, the Japanese like a lot of legroom.

    Top speed is 240km/h (140mph), roughly what’s planned the LA-SD segment. It’s already an old design, but useful enough for bringing in hordes of salarymen from the suburbs. Starting acceleration and emergency braking are nothing to write home about, though.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4_Series_Shinkansen

    A full-length French TGV Duplex has 1090 seats. The latest version has a top speed of 320km/h but again, modest acceleration and hill climbing ability due to the tractor-trailer concept. Marrying a bi-level layout with beefy distributed traction and a 17t axle load limit is an unsolved engineering problem.

    Btw, the TALGO Avril is a single-level design currently in development that will support 587 seats in a 200m trainset package with a top speed of 380km/h (though it’ll take a long time to reach it). This is with 25% of seats in first/business class. Talgo’s wheelset technology requires the use of short cars to keep axle loads low enough, but that means those cars can be wider. Economy class seating can be 3+2 even if the loading gauge is relatively narrow.

    dejv Reply:

    The bi-level Japanese E4Max has a whopping 1634 seats in the full-length 16-car configuration, thanks to 3+2 seating in economy class.

    They actually use 3+3 arrangement in unreserved standard class, 3+2 in reserved standard class and 2+2 in “green” class.

    The trouble with acceleration values is that:
    - starting acceleration doesn’t tell anything about train capabilities
    - usually, it isn’t specified particular acceleration mode (starting, at some speed, residual)

    Talgo’s wheelset technology requires the use of short cars to keep axle loads low enough, but that means those cars can be wider.

    This applies to European loading gauge standardized in era of ~12 m long two-axled cars, so width of longer cars is restricted in curves. US RRs used full-length cars much earlier so loading gauge in curves doesn’t limit carbody width.

    rafael Reply:

    If a manufacturer gives an acceleration number without additional information, it refers to the maximum transient value at standstill. Multiply that by the train mass and you get max. feasible friction (assuming sufficient adhesion). This force is related to the number of motors and their rated torque. Depending on motor type, the given/implied traction force or something close to it can be sustained up to the vehicle speed at which maximum motor torque becomes governed by rated power. Implicitly, the maximum traction force also defines the maximum sustainable hill climbing gradient at moderate speeds.

    Ergo, starting acceleration and vehicle mass together actually reveal a great deal about vehicle performance.

    Due to the generous loading gauge requirements, a special US version of the Talgo AVRIL could perhaps seat 3+3 in economy as well. The car length in the European version is just 13.2m because there’s just a single passively steered wheelset in-between each pair of cars.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Shinkansen are a whole 4-6 inches wider than standard North American passenger cars, depending on which source you consult for width. An Amfleet could pull into a Shinkansen station and the only problem passengers would face is that the gap between the platform and the car is a bit wide.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Rafael, the bilevel Shinkansen trains use distributed traction. The top speed isn’t very high, but then again the axle load is nowhere near 17 tons. 17 tons per axle is a European concept; in Japan the bilevel Shinkansen trains are at 13.5 and are the heaviest thing that ever runs on passenger tracks.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    The Tokaido Shinkansen carries 20,000 pphpd.

  8. Spokker
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 20:51
    #8

    The 710 tunnel sounds pretty bad. I guess if they turn it into a toll tunnel it might work, but who knows.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    That project is entirely unnecessary. It should be killed off for good.

    There are a few road expansion projects I might support, such as taking a two-lane road and making it into a four-lane highway where safety and traffic counts warrant it. But that’s about it. Given rising oil prices and the cost of our dependence on oil, I find it extremely difficult to justify most new freeway lanes.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    Actually, I hate to say it, but it sort of is needed. Right now, the two stub ends of the 710 freeway cause significant congestion and pollution in the cities of South Pasadena and Alhambra.

    Joey Reply:

    No, see this is the problem. People see congestion and then automatically assume that more freeways is the answer. And then when those freeways get clogged we need more lanes. And then the cycle repeats.

    Rather than plunging further into this hopeless cycle, alternative forms of transportation are needed. That tunnel is going to cost somewhere around $5 billion … imagine what you could build in terms of passenger rail for the same price.

    Victor Reply:

    Being I lived in the area My entire life before 1988, Some traffic that would have gone up the i710 is diverted through downtown Los Angeles to the CA2 fwy via the i10 fwy, The 710 extension is not just for autos, The rest of the traffic goes north through Alhambra, San Marino & South Pasadena on the surface streets which means lots of problems for those cities with roads that were never meant for that much heavy traffic, Los Angeles has room in that area for both the fwy and transit as LA is building east-west transit lines in that area as they don’t compete with each other, They complement each other, as It should be(It’s not an either this or that proposition, As not everyone or everything is near to transit and won’t be for a very long time, if ever), as the land for the 710 extension is owned by Caltrans already, The cities lost the last of their court fights years ago, It’s just a matter of when, It will happen.

    Joey Reply:

    AFAIK there is very little land involved in the extension. The plans call for a 4.5 mile bored tunnel underneath all of the existing structures.

    rafael Reply:

    Pasadena and Alhambra should reconfigure their city streets to discourage through traffic – especially trucks hailing from the LA/LB harbors – from using them and encourage the use of alternate routes. Chicanes and speed bumps, ahoy!

    In addition, a fraction of those billions should be spent on shifting freight from road to rail. Taxpayers are leery of this because the freight rail operators are private for-profit businesses. Trucking companies, of course, are charities.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    It’s not just the congestion, it’s the pollution. Pasadena and Alhambra don’t have any room to reconfigure streets. And another problem is that we don’t really have any alternative routes to that missing section. The tunnel will remove all that congestion from city streets and greatly reduce pollution and traffic forced onto city streets by the two stub-ends of the 710.

    Joey Reply:

    So wait … you are trying to reduce pollution by making driving easier?

    Peter Reply:

    That works, sort of. Cars pollute less overall if they’re not stuck in traffic. Until the amount of traffic increases to gridlock levels again, and then you produce more pollution. Again.

    Rafael Reply:

    Actually, gasoline-powered vehicles emit virtually no pollution (other than CO2) once their three-way catalytic converters have reached operating temperature. In the standardized tests, that happens after 20-60 seconds after the ignition is turned (lower number applies to SULEV rated vehicles).

    The smog in the LA basin is caused by other sources, most notably the diesel engines of heavy duty vehicles. Much tougher EPA and CARB emissions limits for NOx and particulates are in force as of this year, but they only apply to new vehicles and replacement engines. In a few years’ time, much of the active HDV fleet operating in the area will have churned to these new, cleaner models.

    As for alternate routes for trucks traveling between LA/LB harbor and the Inland Empire, there are plenty of alternatives already in place. It’s just that truckers want to take a shortcut from the 110 and 710 freeways to the relatively free-flowing 210. And btw, they’d like the taxpayer to foot the bill for that.

    Dan S. Reply:

    CO2 is pollution, though, right? Yes, it occurs naturally in our atmosphere, but our human activities that create more and more of it are causing the greenhouse effect, no? Maybe I’m not reading this in the proper context of LA air pollution?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect

    And cars basically don’t pollute? I guess I don’t really get this stuff. When I look for references, I find things like the EPA 1998 trends report.

    http://www.epa.gov/ttn/chief/trends/trends98/trends98.pdf

    “On-road vehicles are major contributors to CO
    emissions, representing 57 percent of total national
    CO emissions. Of this 57 percent, just over half
    comes from light-duty gasoline vehicles (LDGVs
    [primarily cars]) and motorcycles.”

    “On-road vehicles account for 31 percent of total
    national NOx emissions. LDGVs are a major
    contributor (approximately 37 percent) to the 1998
    on-road vehicle NOx emissions.”

    “On-road vehicles represented 29 percent of total
    national VOC emissions. LDGVs account for just
    over half of total national on-road vehicle VOC
    emissions.”

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Rafael, what you’re saying is not true. Studies using data from the 2000s still find significant noncarbon environmental impact from cars – in fact, most find the per-gallon pollution cost to be higher than the carbon cost.

  9. Spokker
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 20:55
    #9

    Even if the freeway must be expanded, right now the highest capacity gains are in improving Pacific Surfliner service. You’ll want to make sure any single tracked sections are double tracked. You want to improve signaling. If you can get the 3-hour trip from LA to SD down to 2 hours, that would be incredible.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    Exactly. It would make a huge difference, and can be achieved at much lower cost.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    They also need to bore a tunnel that bypasses the hilly La Jolla region just north of Downtown San Diego. It’s a cause of significant congestion and also adds a lot of travel time.

    Joey Reply:

    Given the high price tag for this short segment of freeway, that doesn’t sound so bad now, does it?

    Donk Reply:

    There was a study done in 2004 that analyzed the entire LOSSAN corridor from LAUS to Downtown SD. They determined that it would cost $5.4B in 2003 dollars to double track the entire corridor AND build the tunnel under Miramar Hill (La Jolla).

    Lets see…4 more lanes on I-5 or a double tracked LOSSAN corridor….

    http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/transprog/ctcbooks/2004/0904/46%20(2.2b).pdf

    Matthew F. Reply:

    Or more accurately, “4 lanes for 20 miles” vs. something like 100 miles of grade separation and double-tracking.

    I strongly dislike the “freeway within a freeway” systems. It seems like they add very little capacity relative to their cost.

    thatbruce Reply:

    Del Mar also needs something done to it; the current single track ROW perched on the cliff isn’t exactly stable for two tracks.

  10. John Burrows
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 20:57
    #10

    I do not know much about the San Diego area but I was just wondering if there are any estimates on how much the San Diego to Los Angeles HSR segment will cost

    John Burrows Reply:

    A ballpark answer to my own question. A 2008 reference estimates San Diego to Riverside at 7 to 8 billion dollars. Based on this, a wild guess for Los Angeles to San Diego, updated, might be 13 to 15 billion.

    So, on the one hand you can connect San Diego (population 1.3 million) with Los Angeles (population 4 million) with a 167 mile high speed rail system for 13 to 15 billion dollars, On the other, you can widen a 20 mile stretch of existing freeway for 3.3 to 4.5 billion dollars. Suddenly, HSR seems cheap by comparison.

    rafael Reply:

    This is what CHSRA has always argued. Mind you, such comparisons are apples and oranges because HSR needs expanded connecting transit to achieve maximum utility. SD already has quite a bit of that and LA is working hard at it. In-between those two, there’s very little connecting transit other than Metrolink.

    Unfortunately, CHSRA is not bending over backward to ensure its stations are intermodal with that service in either Riverside or Corona, because they incorrectly assume that Metrolink stations cannot possibly be relocated. This is symptomatic of the way transportation is planned in California: lots of small bureaucracies trying to stay off each others’ turf, rather than a concerted effort to achieve synergies.

  11. D. P. Lubic
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 20:59
    #11

    It comes from that age pattern we’ve discussed before.

    Sen. Lowenthal was born in 1941, so he is 69. I can’t find a birth date for Auditor Lowell, but her photo shows grey hair, and she’s not ancient, either, which makes her in “that difficult, in-between age.” Elizabeth Alexis looks a bit younger than this, so she’s one who doesn’t fit the pattern, but she’s also an economist, and frankly I have developed a low opinion of that profession, or at least people in that profession who have not bothered to study more of the real world, i.e., peak oil and the difficulty of substituting alternative power sources for cars. Of course, my opinion means nothing to these people in this regard, and yours means nothing, too. . .they would think you were being silly, if not insulting. . .

    Spokker Reply:

    Economists are not a hive mind. Krugman certainly doesn’t fit the mold you’ve developed.

    wu ming Reply:

    krugman’s an outlier in the field.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    Well, I respect Elizabeth a lot, and don’t want this to become a bash session. Not at all my intention. But I am interested if she, and Lowenthal, and State Auditor Elaine Howle, and others who have bashed HSR are planning to examine all these freeway projects with the same lens. And if not, it is entirely to fair to ask why HSR is singled out for special treatment when the same issues they claim exist with HSR actually do exist with these freeway projects.

    Peter Reply:

    “when the same issues they claim exist with HSR actually do exist with these freeway projects.”

    To an even greater extent.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    Robert, do you have a list of all current freeway projects in California. I’m sure many would find the pricetag of all the projects added together to be jaw-dropping.

    Let’s see, there’s also the $1 billion carpool lane project on I-405 through the Sepulveda Pass…

  12. Clem
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 21:13
    #12

    The fares are way too low. Clearly this I-5 business plan doesn’t pencil out. Oh, wait, what? There’s no business plan at all ?!?

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    I had a nagging feeling I was missing something when I wrote this…

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    Highways are an apparently privileged mode of transportaion. When the original ISTEA act came out some years back, all the proposed project types, such as airports, port facilities, rail and bus projects, and so on, had requirements for a positive cost-benefit analysis–except highways. Translation–as Clem put it, no business plan.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    HSR has a positive cost benefit analysis. To create the same capacity with roads and airports would cost twice, three times as much and would result in longer travel times. That’s a different issue than whether or not it’s going to make money.

    Donk Reply:

    Given that our gas tax revenue is no longer covering the cost of repairs of highways, they should make each highway create a viable business plan that explains how they plan to maintain the highway for the next 100 years. Why does HSR have to worry about covering operating costs when highways clearly cannot?

    rafael Reply:

    Whaddayamean, no business plan? The plan is the same it’s always* been: “pave, baby, pave”. If you’re in the asphalt business, that plan is good for your business.

    *The period before 1945 doesn’t count. Why? Because.

    Matthew F. Reply:

    If you post that to your blog, it’ll make it into my facebook feed and google reader shared items :)

  13. D. P. Lubic
    Jun 7th, 2010 at 21:42
    #13

    One thing we may need to prepare for is an eventual financial scandal involving a rail project. Sadly, this is something of a historic pattern (think Credit Mobilier in the 1860s).

    I think this may come from two causes. One, politicians are nortoriously inept in technical matters; think of how ignorant they (and many others of the time) would be of railroads and civil engineering in the 1860s, and similarly how ignorant they can be today, simply because they do not have a clue about civil engineering, mechanical engineering, or anything at all like this. Then combine this with the usual big ego politicians have, which means they think they know everything!

    Second, I think we may have a combination of corruption problems in the corporate world, and a lack of opportunity for big business in the world in general, and the United States in particular, which in turn feeds the corruption problem (i.e., it makes the corporate types much more desperate).

    Much has been made of the problem of corruption being one of character, and as much of this is at least seemingly acknowleged to be true, I will not expand upon this here.

    The lack of opportunity, I believe, comes not from excessive government regulation, but from what amounts to a combination of market saturation in technological advances, or a diminishing return on technological advances. Some examples follow:

    Do you want to revolutionize communications, let people talk at will across a city, a county, a country? You’re too late, Alexander Graham Bell has beaten you to it. Want to revolutionize transportation with personal travel pods that can let you go anywhere you want, whenever you want? Henry Ford’s already done that. Want to really transform Alexander Bell’s telephone, transmit photos and video and all sorts of other things? Bill Gates and the cell phone and camera phone and. . .you get the picture.

    Another example: Think of your kitchen of today, think of what a kitchen would have looked like in 1950, then go back to 1930, and to 1900 and before. You would very likely feel right at home in the 1950 kitchen (perhaps missing a microwave oven and air conditioning), and you could use a 1930 kitchen with relatively minimal changes in cooking style, but picture going back to a coal stove, no refrigeration, and likely no running water in 1900! The point is that while there have been improvements in kitchens since 1950, they were not as dramatic as the change from 1900 to 1930. or even from 1930 to 1950.

    What this means is that the opportunity to do something really dramatic and become insanely rich doing so is very limited, and in some cases is (or was) a once-in-forever chance, but do you think the stockbroker types and investment bankers want to settle down to a life of grubbing profits out of the difference between 3% interest pay-outs for depositors and 6% home loans?

    This brings up what may be a serious danger to HSR and other rail projects. I strongly suspect the firms involved, such as Bechtel, know all this, and may be anxious to milk these projects for all they are worth. The will build what the customer says he wants (even if it is a subterranian station with severe curve problems and a throat that’s less than ideal), and they will charge a fine penny for their “unique expertise.” This is because HSR may well be the last grand opportunity for a major, changing, technological source of profits, and some firms, such as Bechtel, very likely see this. It does not help matters that most major businesses today are largely run by lawyers, bean counters, and bankers without real engineering or manufacturing expertise, but a great talent for swinging deals with plenty of profits, forgetting that you have to provide real value for whatever you sell. Now, combine this with the ignorant, know-it-all politicians. . .

    How should this be handled when (not if) it comes?

    Clem Reply:

    Not that hard, really. This should be handled by having a high-speed rail authority that has both clue and clout, in the form of a large staff of technically competent civil servants who own the entire technical decision-making process all the way down to bite-size pieces, keeping Parsons-Bechtel-Soprano in line. That is how they do it in Spain.

    It’s nothing against the civil engineering companies–they are after all trying to maximize profit. The issue is that we let them do it at our considerable expense.

    For example, If I were them, and I were trying to run a railroad through San Jose, I would most like to dig a gargantuan hole in the ground, but I would realize taxpayers would never spend that much money. So rather than use existing railroad land to build a reasonable ground-level facility, I would gerrymander the technical “requirements” and the regulatory “constraints” and the operational “analysis” such that a new double-deck facility is “required”. Then I would subvert the opposition of local residents to point out that I cannot possibly use the existing at-grade railroad alignment, and get a double-bonus of building a giant viaduct / “iconic” suspension bridge (if possible delaying the “iconic” part as long as possible in order to maximize late-breaking engineering changes), PLUS appearing as if I’m genuinely concerned about residents and sensitivity to context. Next I would create an elaborate construction phasing plan that allows existing train service to continue during the entire process. This adds 50% to the construction time line, and as I know all too well, time is money. It also allows me to engineer and construct a variety of temporary structures, for which I bill both construction AND demolition. Then I may take the time to find a few defects that I can blame on one of my subcontractors, which makes me look good because I caught the error before any lives were put in danger, and has the added benefit of delaying the entire project a little bit more and adding 20% to the construction cost.

    Somebody else can worry about running trains, if that’s even what this was about?

    Rafael Reply:

    Yup, redefining Caltrain service such that it can share a two-track mainline with a more modest HSR offering in the SF peninsula would arguably deliver a little less bang for a lot less moolah. But then, existing service levels for what, 59 people a day in College Park in San Jose (and other tertiary stations along the route), absolutely, positively must be preserved at any cost.

    Caltrain and ACE MUST be permitted to keep stabling trains at SJ Diridon in the middle of the day, so of course SJ Diridon will be a bi-level station. There is NO space for a stabling yard anywhere nearby (except that there is).

    The Auzerais Ave and W Virginia St crossing points MUST be preserved at all costs. Grade separations would bisect the Gardner community (except for all the ones already there). No, scratch that, let’s build a mile-long iconic bridge with fancy cable stays at an angle and not figure out until it’s too late how to fit trains + 25kV OCS underneath those without arcing. Ka-ching!

    Perhaps the Caltrain waiver will knock some common sense into CHSRA’s plans for San Jose and the peninsula, but I’m not holding my breath. Overbuilding is lucrative.

    rafael Reply:

    Reports of the death of innovation are greatly exaggerated. Just look at the computer and internet industries, those have definitely revolutionized our way of life. Electric cars and bicycles may yet do the same. So would algal oil.

    As for scandals, transparency is the best disinfectant. CHSRA has published a lot of documentation on the internet and thanks to blogs like this one, members of the general public are more aware of the details of this project than they are of many others. In addition, there’s oversight by the state legislature. If they need technical assistance to understand what CHSRA is saying, they should go out and get it.

    Is there a risk of impropriety? Absolutely, there always is when large sums of public money are involved. The power of the pursestrings corrupts and absolute power would corrupt absolutely. It has nothing to do with rails and everything to do with greed and campaign financing.

    Is there any hard evidence of kickbacks or rigged tenders in the HSR project? There was the kerfuffle over the PR contract, but that was peanuts. The the bulk of the spending is yet to come. There will be wining, dining and other vendor-driven activities.

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    Thank you for the comments, Rafael.

    Please understand, my point isn’t that people are necessarily dumber today than before (even if I see some evidence to suggest that! :-)), but that the opportunity to make for real improvements is becoming more marginal.

    Case in point: Henry Ford’s Model T allowed powered transportation for almost everybody, including the farmer on his notoriously muddy roads. This was an immense improvement over walking or animal transport. Some 40-odd years later, Chevrolet had a beautiful car, the “tri-fives” (1955-1957 models) that incorporated many design advances for the day, including a wonderful small-block V8 that still has descendents in production today. It was a car that could run all day on the yet-to-be-built Interstate system at 60 to 70 mph.

    Since then, we have had some enormous muscle cars, and all sorts of improvements in things like computer controls and injectors the old-time auto engineers and designers would have given their teeth for, and the cars are amazingly reliable (among other things, spark plug wires no longer work loose like they used to–guess how I know this), but we are still limited to driving 60 to 70 mph. Now, I know a lot of this is the limit of driver ability, but you also have fuel consumption penalties above that speed, too. You also have to deal with congestion and speed restrictions in towns and residential areas. In that respect, your modern car is no better than a 1955 car.

    Similarly, in aircraft, it looks like supersonic flight never was really economically viable (and the Concorde apparently had a number of serious mechanical problems, I’ve seen a report that suggested the plane should have been grounded for safety reasons 10 years before it actually was taken out of service), so we have a real performance limit in commercial air service at just below the sound barrier.

    This is what makes HSR an exciting development–the chance for a real performance improvement that will make living in a post-oil world a civilized experience. It may well be the last really revolutionary development (as opposed to marginal improvement, like better car reliability) we can make.

    Of course, I could be wrong, as you suggest. . .

    Have fun!

    rafael Reply:

    Sure, the old Schumpeter curve. It only holds true for incremental improvements to a given technology, though. What usually happens is that a separate, completely new and unrelated constraint pops up and modifies the requirements, triggering a new cycle of optimization.

    For example, the fact that we now have reliable wireless broadband internet technology and love using it means that trains now ought to offer that in transit (only a few around the world actually do so far). On the other hand, since that means time spent in transit is no longer wasted (as economists long assumed), it is no longer as essential to reach ludicrous speed. In terms of California HSR, I reckon including WiFi on board in the service model would permit relaxing the SF-LA line haul time target from 2h40m to 3h00m (or more) without any loss of ridership. That’s huge because it gives planners more freedom to make do with imperfect legacy alignments and curves in built-up areas.

    On the other hand, relatively recent advances in ferromagnetic materials and motor control systems now make it possible to consider steeper gradients in mountain sections than ever before. This creates scope for a trade-off between up-front tunneling cost and recurring electricity cost (though the latter can anyhow be minimized via recuperative braking in the case of electric trains).

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    40 years ago no one had a computer along for the ride. 30 years ago only geeks carried their computer along with them. 20 years ago only power users did. We survived.

    The fastest way to get between Washington DC, New York and points in between is the train, has been since there were trains. Going really fast is an incremental improvement.

    AndyDuncan Reply:

    By the time this thing is launched nobody is going to be using wifi anyway. Don’t worry about it.

    rafael Reply:

    Fine, then provide some other reliable broadband internet access technology.

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    For Rafael:

    Schumpeter Curve! New term again, did a little looking up on it (and discovered more reading I have to do), and find it interesting that someone did some theoretical work on this thing that I see, for lack of a better term, instincively.

    Your comments about wireless communication making transit time available as productive time strike several similar notes. One is that this is not a new concept; some big Eastern trains, notably the 20th Century Limited and the Broadway Limited, featured stenographers and secretaries among the staff, and also had stock market reports delivered at intermediate stations. This was as far back as the 1920s, and may have gone back earlier. Keep in mind, of course, that this was for the big moneybag clientel who rode these trains back in the day between stock markets in New York and Chicago; such services would be much more expensive to provide than the computer service you speak of for today, and were never really widespread. Your proposed computer network would be much more so.

    The other comment, that the use of time like this helps avoid the need for really high speeds (i.e., in the maglev-ground airplane range), brings to mind a proposal by a friend of mine for coast-to-coast HSR service. He suggested that a coast-to-coast route, say from Washington, DC to San Francisco, should run in 24 hours or less. This is three hours faster than New York-Miami service today, and approximates the best times of New York-Florida service back in the 1950s and early 1960s. It is notable that this New York-Florida service has always been a strong rail market, even now, and that this 24-hour time, if you work on the back of an envelope with nice, round numbers (like a 3,000 miles to cross the country), you come up with an average speed of 125 mph. You already know this is quite modest by modern HSR standards. Going to a 20-hour running time gives you an average speed of 150 mph, and reducing the time to 16 hours requires an average speed of 187.5 mph. These speeds are well within the range of HSR equipment today, with no unpleasant surprises (although that’s a long distance to run at this speed, and I wonder how well wheels and bearings will hold up under such conditions).

    At these speeds and running times, a coast-to-coast train ride becomes a sleeper hop, running at the same times the Broadway and the 20th Century made at various times between Washington and Chicago. There is even an advantage in terms of “clock time” for west-bound trains, as you pick up time crossing three time zones; the 20-hour trip becomes only 17 hours, and the 16-hour run reduces itself to 13 hours! Of course, you wind up with clock times of 23 and 19 hours respectively going back east across the time zones again, but there’s not much to do about that.

    The point of this is that you could run this much like the 20th Century and other trains in terms of travel convenience–and in this case, that would include not only the modern amenities, such as wireless telephone and computer service, but comfortable sleeping car service and a very nice dining car. Again, there would be the use of time spent while eating or sleeping that would otherwise go to “waste.”

    This isn’t something to build as the first HSR line in the United States, but it could be something that could develop later. Amtrak may be finding this out for us:

    http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/03/from_a_to_b_with_zs/

    Notable quote from the Boston Globe story above:

    “The decision to bring back sleeper cars is part of a broader campaign to attract riders at a time when overnight train travel has surged 7 percent between October and March, compared with the same period in 2007 and 2008. Officials attribute the increase to riders who fled high gas prices last summer, then stuck with the train because they liked it. The Boston-to-Chicago line, which saw a 1.9 percent increase during the period, is one of six trains nationwide targeted for upgrades.”

    These links are for those who are not familiar with sleepers; they have some cool animations as the rooms transition from day to night configurations:

    http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Content_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1241267399802

    http://www.amtrak.com/media/train_tour/superliner/superlinerSLEEPER_CONTROLLER.html

    http://www.amtrak.com/media/train_tour/viewliner/viewliner.html

    Enjoy.

    wu ming Reply:

    and the great thing is that you wouldn’t even need to invest anything, given how pathetically backwards this country’s rail is. you just import state of the art and it’s a quantum leap past the crap we put up with today.

    i thionk one reason for the maglev gadgetbahn fixation some have is in part a product of an inability to believe we are that far beyond developed countries, that simply adopting the standard sort of HSR system would be so much better than what we have now. it seems too easy.

    wu ming Reply:

    d’oh, inveSt should read “inveNt.” lord knows one needs to invest in this thing to make it work.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Maglev fascination comes from reading Popular Science or Popular Mechanics back in the 60s when everybody “knew” that steel wheels on steel rail would never ever go faster than 125 MPH and do get 200 MPH service you had to go with different technology.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Rafael, electric cars and bicycles were all the rage around 1900. The League of American Wheelers was the primary force for good roads around then (the AAA was built on its ashes), Edison predicted a nationwide network of electric car recharging stations, and so on. Then people discovered that the internal combustion engine had superior range, and the bicycle and the electric car got wiped out.

    The fundamentals haven’t changed since then. There is no pollution tax in the US, so the realization that the internal combustion engine spews poison does not change the market. Electric cars’ range has improved somewhat, but so has gas-powered cars’. The bicycle has actually gotten worse – in 1900, dooring wasn’t as big of a problem as it is today.

    Nathanael Reply:

    Yeah, but since 1900 we’ve discovered *pollution* and treated it as a real issue. And gas prices have skyrocketed, while electricity prices haven’t… even with the slow switch to renewables, the relative price differential continues to favor electricity (which it didn’t in 1900). And that changes the situation massively.

    We’ve also installed electric lines across the country (rural electrification was largely absent in 1900). That makes a network of charging stations less of the impossibility it was in 1900.

    That’s why electric cars are going to kill gasoline cars; the fundamentals *have* changed underneath them. Of course the reasons trains will be more popular than either are different, but again due to fundamentals which are not immediately obvious.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    No, electricity prices are on the increase, too. In fact, carbon taxes are going to be the most brutal to coal-fired electricity; their effect on gas prices is going to be small, about $1/gallon.

    And in 1900, people in the rural areas couldn’t afford either cars or electricity. Most driving was done within small urban areas.

    D. P. Lubic Reply:

    And as a corollary, we forget how dense the rail and interurban network used to be. If yoyu went out into the midwest, some states like Iowa had a rail network so dense that no one was more than 20 miles from a railroad. Now, a great deal of this was low-density branch lines, some were down to running tri-weekly mixed trains as early as the 1930s, but they were still there then, and at least some roadbeds are still there today.

    For history fans and rail fans, I highly recommend two books, “Slow Train Through Arkansas,” by Archie Robinson, and “Mixed Train Daily,” by social columnist Lucius Beebe (who was somewhat notorious as “Luscious Lucius” for his flamboyant clothes and his drinking, he’s mentioned by this nickname in the song “Zip” from Cole Porter’s “Pal Joey”). Both are railfan books by writers looking for railroading with small engines and ancient equipment out of the past still running in the 1940s.

    rafael Reply:

    Everything old is new again. Modern Li-ion batteries are already powering millions of two-wheelers in China and the market is Europe is booming as well. In this regard, too, the US is behind the curve.

    Car manufacturers have been waiting for modified chemistries that do not present a fire hazard in a serious crash (i.e. no thermal runaway when individual cells are punctured). Those are now becoming available in volume.

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