Terminating HSR In San Jose Isn’t Just Illegal – It’s Also Pointless

Mar 25th, 2010 | Posted by

Just got back from a daylong trip to Sacramento, so this will have to be brief – and really, it speaks for itself, as Mike Rosenberg reports:

In a blow to high-speed-rail critics lobbying for the train line from Los Angeles to end in San Jose, Caltrain officials said Tuesday that the idea would require the same Peninsula track expansion while harming local commuter service and stripping the agency of funding.

For riders to take the bullet train from Southern California to San Jose and transfer to an express Caltrain to San Francisco — as some critics and planners have proposed — Caltrain would have to add tracks or eliminate commute service to accommodate them, said Bob Doty, Caltrain’s joint high-speed-rail program director.

As a result, whether high-speed rail runs to San Jose or San Francisco, the impact on Peninsula residents and businesses — namely property taking, noise and aesthetics — would be virtually the same. But were it to stop in San Jose, train service would be longer and less convenient, and Doty said the project would cost about the same but have fewer funding sources.

“I just think people think that if high-speed rail stops in San Jose, we can just use what we have today, and there’s just no way,” Doty said. “It’s one of these closed loop arguments; I just don’t know how you do it.”

In other words, stopping in San José would produce the same impact on the Peninsula while massively damaging the HSR system’s ability to be financially viable. Nothing at all is gained on the Peninsula, but the state loses quite a lot – potentially the ability of HSR to pay its own operating costs as mandated by Prop 1A.

Doty’s comments add to the extremely strong case against terminating HSR service in San José, to the point where you’d think that local governments would just drop this time-waster of an idea and focus on other aspects of HSR planning where their ideas can have better use. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, that’s not the case:

Burlingame Mayor Cathy Baylock, the city’s representative on the consortium, and [Palo Alto Mayor Pat] Burt said the Legislature should ask voters to revise Proposition 1A if planners determine that the stop-in-San Jose option is best. Baylock said much has changed since the proposition’s passage.

“I think they need to show some adaptability, too,” said Baylock, whose city has not taken a stance on the hybrid option. “I just think where there’s a will, there’s a way.”

But Doty said, “I don’t know of a vendor in the world” willing to invest money in a system that halts in San Jose.

I don’t know how much clearer to put it: Mayors Baylock and Burt are wasting everyone’s time flogging this non-starter of an idea. They’re wasting the time of their own constituents, who should instead be focused on the details of how the HSR/Caltrain project will be built in their communities. They’re wasting the time of the California High Speed Rail Authority and Caltrain, who have better things to do than spend time on this, even though they’re studying it anyway because they’re mandated to do so. And they’re wasting the time of Californians who want to see HSR built as planned and as approved by the voters, efficiently, on-time and on-budget.

  1. political_incorrectness
    Mar 25th, 2010 at 22:49
    #1

    http://www.examiner.com/x-35485-SF-Transportation-Policy-Examiner~y2010m3d24-California-High-Speed-Rail-Project–Time-to-eliminate-their-funding Does this even have a chance or will it die in committee?

    Matthew F. Reply:

    Snowball’s chance. The legislature can’t just repeal propositions. They are the primary law of the land, apart from the state constitution. Any legislator aiming to do so would just be making a fool of themselves.

    You should know better than to take an Examiner article seriously. The authors get paid per hit, so they write inflammatory headlines on shaky evidence and speculation, and post them as controversies in blog discussions that are likely to generate a lot of hits.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    I would concur with the snowball chance assessment (it sounds like even the assembly woman puts the odds at a similar level) but it doesn’t appear to be illegal (read the article).

    One other thing to keep in mind. Part of the High Speed Rail legislation is that the legislature explicitly holds the pursestrings. The legislature sees the proposition vote as a mandate to try hard to make this work, but if costs continue to escalate they don’t have a mandate to let it happen at any cost.

    Peter Reply:

    Wow, that article is so slanted. They didn’t even TRY to make say it was an op-ed.

    What’s the likelihood of this bill passing and being vetoed by Schwarzenegger? Pretty high, I’d think.

    Robert Cruickshank Reply:

    The likelihood of this bill passing is as close to zero as you can get without actually being zero. Diane Harkey is a Republican from Orange County, which is already a strike against this bill (the Democratic majority has little interest in passing a Republican-authored bill). HSR has broad and deep support from nearly all Democrats and from many Republicans, another strike against this bill. HSR is also a key priority of the Obama Administration and Speaker Nancy Pelosi, yet another strike against this bill.

    A snowball has a better chance in hell than this bill has in the Capitol.

    Peter Reply:

    Well, I meant that if it passed (EXCEPTIONALLY UNLIKELY) it would, with a high probability be vetoed.

    lyqwyd Reply:

    what a joke, she talks about jobs and then wants to kill something that will create a huge number of them.

  2. jimsf
    Mar 26th, 2010 at 00:10
    #2

    I read the examiner sometimes cuz its free… its basically a right wing rag that no one will buy in san francisco, so they have to give it away.

    Matthew Melzer Reply:

    The other published edition in Washington, DC (also free) actually does a decent job covering hard transpo news.

    Incidentally, The Examiner is owned by Philip Anschutz who, besides being a champion of right-wing causes, also owns Xanterra Parks, operator of the Grand Canyon Railway. He recently sold the Ski Train in Colorado and apparently purchased equipment from the defunct GrandLuxe (nee American Orient Express). He also used to be involved with UP.

    It certainly makes me wonder if his political and industrial backgrounds color his (and his newspapers’) opinion of HSR one way or the other.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Anschutz is still involved with UP – he’s the plurality shareholder, owning 6% of the company. But he apparently doesn’t interfere with the company’s day to day business much, or else it wouldn’t be getting awards for its good treatment of working mothers and benefits for single-sex couples.

    YesonHSR Reply:

    The San Francisco edition had a YES recomondation for Prop1A ..what is maby confusing here is “the examiner’ lets you set a private blog and you can report on local issues..as this person is doing..Guess what.. once reading one of these articles I readsomewhere in the comments someone ‘outing’ her..she live in either Palo Alto or MenloPark by the tracks!!! I never read that link again

  3. adirondacker12800
    Mar 26th, 2010 at 00:13
    #3

    Wasn’t this eliminated as an option when they were narrowing it down to Pacheco versus Altamont?
    Once the line is electrified there’s no technical reason why HSR trains have to stop in San Jose, they could go all the way to San Francisco.

    Joey Reply:

    It was included in the program level alternatives. And rejected.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Then the local taxpayers have to ask why their local officials are wasting time and money pursuing alternatives that have already been examined and rejected.

  4. HSRforCali
    Mar 26th, 2010 at 07:08
    #4

    Couldn’t the Caltrain alignment be built using a 2-3 track alignment to SF? It just seems like this would be far cheaper and easier to build. Four tracks can be built at all stations to allow for frequent passing. It just seems like 4 tracks creates unnecessary capacity, like the Bart Milbrae/SFO extension.

    Peter Reply:

    But the thing is that a 2-3 track fully grade-separated alignment will have nearly the same impacts as a 4 track fully grade-separated alignment.

    Richard Mlynarik Reply:

    Wrong.

    Peter Reply:

    Subtleties, Richard, subtleties. I said “will have nearly the same impacts,” not “will have the same impacts.”

    Anonymoose Reply:

    The visual impacts (grade seps) will be about as bad, and that’s what people are bitching about

    Joey Reply:

    The only real difference is the width requirement. Visual impact, traffic levels, noise will all be about the same.

    Clem Reply:

    Right. 100% grade separation is what causes the bulk of the environmental impact, regardless of whether you have 2, 3 or 4 tracks.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    I would disagree.

    1) The extra room lets you do all sorts of mitigation, like small forests between homes and tracks.
    2) The visual impact of 4 tracks (“floating battleship”) is strikingly different.
    3) You halve the costs of tunneling. Using air rights becomes a viable strategy of funding.
    4) You don’t run into problems with existing grade separations.

    Elizabeth Reply:

    Keep in mind that there is surely an alternative out there that has HSR coming into SF with less than 4 tracks everywhere.

    Peter Reply:

    Unlikely while still maintaining Caltrain service and meeting the requirements of Prop 1A for HSR capacity.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    It depends on what “less than four tracks everywhere” means … long stretches of three tracks, or two or three short sections of three tracks. With FSSF, merging it down to FSF for a short stretch is certainly feasible. Its preferable to avoid it, of course, as each bi-directional locals segment introduces more rigidity into the locals schedule.

    Peter Reply:

    So, I’ve been wondering this for a while. You are proposing funding a tunnel by selling the air rights above the ROW. How big and how tall do you think the buildings would have to be to generate sufficient funding? So, you would be ok with mid- to high-rise buildings along the same corridor that you oppose an elevated railway upon? There is some disconnect there.

    I do understand that, yes, the buildings would not generate noise, etc. But no one has come forward with a practical, financially viable alternative to an elevated, despite people claiming over and over that there is such an alternative.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    Couldn’t the ROW be placed in the basements of high-rises?

    lyqwyd Reply:

    The only way it would halve the cost of tunneling is if the tunneling is done with a TBM, which isn’t going to happen. The cost of cut and cover tunneling doesn’t not scale linearly with the width, there’s a large fixed cost in merely making the tunnel.

    If you really want to tracks you should be advocating complete removal of heavy freight. Otherwise there is no chance of going to only 2 tracks.

    lyqwyd Reply:

    The last sentence should be:

    If you really want 2 tracks you should be advocating complete removal of heavy freight. Otherwise there is no chance of going to only 2 tracks.

  5. Brandon from San Diego
    Mar 26th, 2010 at 07:15
    #5

    I’m reminded by David Letterman-type lists; the Top Ten. Here, I’d call it Needless HSR Project Diversions.

    Needless HSR Project Diversions; CHSRA being forced to respond to:
    - Pulling up-short of San Francisco in San Jose
    - Sharing Track with Frieght
    - Armchair Ridership Modelers
    - Pacheco Alignment Proponents
    - Extra effort in San Francisco to design a terminal that is compatible with HSR plans

    What did I miss?

    Peter Reply:

    - Armchair track geometry designers
    - The I-5-Grapevine-Obsessed

    lyqwyd Reply:

    and 101 obsessed!

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Tunnel-in-Anaheim budget busters

    Spokker Reply:

    The entire la-ana route.

  6. thatbruce
    Mar 26th, 2010 at 17:36
    #6

    Operationally, having Caltrain be the signalling/fine scheduling operator for the final run between SJ and SF makes sense, provided that Caltrain and CAHSR are using compatible equipment and shared tracks/chokepoints. Otherwise CAHSR gets the joy of scheduling in all the commuter services.

    So something of CAHSR may end in San Jose; their signalling control.

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