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	<title>Comments on: Get On The Train</title>
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	<description>California High Speed Rail support blog, spreading news and info about the high speed trains project approved by California voters in November 2008.</description>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72149</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72149</guid>
		<description>Senator Durbin (D-IL) has an amendent to the FAA reauthorization bill being debated now in the Senate that would require the FAA and Federal Railroad Administration to conduct a study of airline and intercity rail code-share arrangements.  As some of the speakers at the FAA Forecast conference noted, high speed rail can be beneficial to air carriers, especially if they formed cooperative partnerships.  Continental already has a codeshare arrangement with Amtrak that allows passengers to earn Continental frequent flier miles on their trips to the airport (http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/company/alliance/amtrak.aspx).  Continental passengers can also earn miles on Accela trips.

SA 3482. 
SEC. 720. AIR-RAIL CODESHARE STUDY.

(a) CODESHARE STUDY.—Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Transportation, in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration and the Federal Railroad Administration,
shall conduct a study of—

(1) the current airline and intercity passenger rail codeshare arrangements;
(2) the best methods for encouraging better integration of future airline and intercity passenger rail schedules; and
(3) the feasibility of increasing intermodal connectivity of airline and intercity passenger rail facilities and systems to improve passenger travel.

(b) CONSIDERATIONS.—The study shall consider—
(1) the potential benefits to passengers from the development of a more efficient travel network through the implementation of more integrated scheduling between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers achieved through codesharing arrangements;

(2) statutory and regulatory challenges or barriers to greater integration of future scheduling through implementation of codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers;

(3) financial or other challenges to implementing more integrated codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers; and

(4) airport operations that can improve connectivity to intercity passenger rail facilities
and stations.

(c) REPORT.—Not later than 1 year after commencing the study required by subsection
(a), the Secretary shall submit a report on the study to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate and the Committee on Transportation
and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives. The report shall include any conclusions of the Secretary resulting from the study, the Secretary’s recommendations for improving intermodal connections between airlines and intercity passenger rail, and the Secretary’s recommendations for regulatory or legislative changes necessary to facilitate codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak and other intercity passenger rail carriers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Senator Durbin (D-IL) has an amendent to the FAA reauthorization bill being debated now in the Senate that would require the FAA and Federal Railroad Administration to conduct a study of airline and intercity rail code-share arrangements.  As some of the speakers at the FAA Forecast conference noted, high speed rail can be beneficial to air carriers, especially if they formed cooperative partnerships.  Continental already has a codeshare arrangement with Amtrak that allows passengers to earn Continental frequent flier miles on their trips to the airport (<a href="http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/company/alliance/amtrak.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.continental.com/web/en-US/content/company/alliance/amtrak.aspx</a>).  Continental passengers can also earn miles on Accela trips.</p>
<p>SA 3482.<br />
SEC. 720. AIR-RAIL CODESHARE STUDY.</p>
<p>(a) CODESHARE STUDY.—Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary of Transportation, in coordination with the Federal Aviation Administration and the Federal Railroad Administration,<br />
shall conduct a study of—</p>
<p>(1) the current airline and intercity passenger rail codeshare arrangements;<br />
(2) the best methods for encouraging better integration of future airline and intercity passenger rail schedules; and<br />
(3) the feasibility of increasing intermodal connectivity of airline and intercity passenger rail facilities and systems to improve passenger travel.</p>
<p>(b) CONSIDERATIONS.—The study shall consider—<br />
(1) the potential benefits to passengers from the development of a more efficient travel network through the implementation of more integrated scheduling between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers achieved through codesharing arrangements;</p>
<p>(2) statutory and regulatory challenges or barriers to greater integration of future scheduling through implementation of codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers;</p>
<p>(3) financial or other challenges to implementing more integrated codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak or other intercity passenger rail carriers; and</p>
<p>(4) airport operations that can improve connectivity to intercity passenger rail facilities<br />
and stations.</p>
<p>(c) REPORT.—Not later than 1 year after commencing the study required by subsection<br />
(a), the Secretary shall submit a report on the study to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation of the Senate and the Committee on Transportation<br />
and Infrastructure of the House of Representatives. The report shall include any conclusions of the Secretary resulting from the study, the Secretary’s recommendations for improving intermodal connections between airlines and intercity passenger rail, and the Secretary’s recommendations for regulatory or legislative changes necessary to facilitate codeshare arrangements between airlines and Amtrak and other intercity passenger rail carriers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72128</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72128</guid>
		<description>Matthew Coogan, Director of the New England  Transportation Institute, had a presentation about high speed rail in California at the recent FAA forecast conference.  He noted that something like 94% of the travelers between San Diego and Sacramento currently fly rather than drive because of the greater distances from the rest of the state.  The promise for high speed rail with San Diego is the diversion of motorists who are going to other Southern California destinations to rail.  Perhaps some north county residents  will also use Ontario instead of Lindbergh, especially if LAWA was aggressive with landing fees at Ontario and carriers passed this on (unlikely) with lower ticket prices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew Coogan, Director of the New England  Transportation Institute, had a presentation about high speed rail in California at the recent FAA forecast conference.  He noted that something like 94% of the travelers between San Diego and Sacramento currently fly rather than drive because of the greater distances from the rest of the state.  The promise for high speed rail with San Diego is the diversion of motorists who are going to other Southern California destinations to rail.  Perhaps some north county residents  will also use Ontario instead of Lindbergh, especially if LAWA was aggressive with landing fees at Ontario and carriers passed this on (unlikely) with lower ticket prices.</p>
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		<title>By: Samsonian</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72127</link>
		<dc:creator>Samsonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72127</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Los Angeles World Airports (i.e. the City of Los Angeles) owns Ontario Airport and would be just tickled pink if the arrival of HSR kept pressure off it’s flagship airport, LAX by allowing Ontario to serve more passengers and possibly have more international flights.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, tickle away.

The LAWA is owned by the City of LA, and LAX is their flagship airport, but LAX has some problems. 

It&#039;s overcrowded, has poor transit (though that will change), can&#039;t expand to handle more flights and bigger planes (like A380) due to community opposition, the local community wants less emphasis on LAX and more on the other airports, and LAWA has already acquiesced. 

ONT getting a HSR station is no accident, LAWA asked for it. And it makes some sense to do this and relieve LAX, even though it&#039;s better to serve downtowns with HSR instead of airports. If only Palmdale and LAWA would create a plan to develop PMD and integrate the HSR station into an air terminal like Rafael has discussed before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Los Angeles World Airports (i.e. the City of Los Angeles) owns Ontario Airport and would be just tickled pink if the arrival of HSR kept pressure off it’s flagship airport, LAX by allowing Ontario to serve more passengers and possibly have more international flights.</i></p>
<p>Well, tickle away.</p>
<p>The LAWA is owned by the City of LA, and LAX is their flagship airport, but LAX has some problems. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s overcrowded, has poor transit (though that will change), can&#8217;t expand to handle more flights and bigger planes (like A380) due to community opposition, the local community wants less emphasis on LAX and more on the other airports, and LAWA has already acquiesced. </p>
<p>ONT getting a HSR station is no accident, LAWA asked for it. And it makes some sense to do this and relieve LAX, even though it&#8217;s better to serve downtowns with HSR instead of airports. If only Palmdale and LAWA would create a plan to develop PMD and integrate the HSR station into an air terminal like Rafael has discussed before.</p>
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		<title>By: frozen</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72106</link>
		<dc:creator>frozen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 20:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72106</guid>
		<description>Yeah, the FAA rules and regulations applies to the building inside the flight path. However, the building proposed for Ontario is on the north side-- away from the flight path. (The runways at ONT is East-West)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, the FAA rules and regulations applies to the building inside the flight path. However, the building proposed for Ontario is on the north side&#8211; away from the flight path. (The runways at ONT is East-West)</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72105</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72105</guid>
		<description>Yeah, there was a developer in San Diego who decided that he would ignore the FAA&#039;s finding that the project they were building was incompatible with the nearby airport. He learned his lesson after he was forced to tear down the top 3 or 4 stories after it was completed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, there was a developer in San Diego who decided that he would ignore the FAA&#8217;s finding that the project they were building was incompatible with the nearby airport. He learned his lesson after he was forced to tear down the top 3 or 4 stories after it was completed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72103</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72103</guid>
		<description>Matt--

&quot;In the future, Ontario plans to build the tallest office and condo towers in the city on this property, just north of the airport. The tower complexes are planned to be multiple urban villages. Tower heights could reach up to 500 ft / 50 story towers. These “villages” will be some of the tallest buildings in all of Greater LA due to the massive airport and the un-restrictive building height limits. Los Angeles will always be taller by 20 floors but Ontario is expected to be a close second. &quot;

This makes no sense.  The FAA will not allow these buildings if they obstruct the navigable airspace.  This is from the FAA (https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/portal.jsp).


CFR Title 14 Part 77.13 states that any person/organization who intends to sponsor any of the following construction or alterations must notify the Administrator of the FAA: 

any construction or alteration exceeding 200 ft above ground level 
any construction or alteration: 
within 20,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 100:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with at least one runway more than 3,200 ft 
within 10,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 50:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with its longest runway no more than 3,200 ft 
within 5,000 ft of a public use heliport which exceeds a 25:1 surface 
any highway, railroad or other traverse way whose prescribed adjusted height would exceed the above noted standards 
when requested by the FAA 
any construction or alteration located on a public use airport or heliport regardless of height or location.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt&#8211;</p>
<p>&#8220;In the future, Ontario plans to build the tallest office and condo towers in the city on this property, just north of the airport. The tower complexes are planned to be multiple urban villages. Tower heights could reach up to 500 ft / 50 story towers. These “villages” will be some of the tallest buildings in all of Greater LA due to the massive airport and the un-restrictive building height limits. Los Angeles will always be taller by 20 floors but Ontario is expected to be a close second. &#8221;</p>
<p>This makes no sense.  The FAA will not allow these buildings if they obstruct the navigable airspace.  This is from the FAA (<a href="https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/portal.jsp" rel="nofollow">https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/portal.jsp</a>).</p>
<p>CFR Title 14 Part 77.13 states that any person/organization who intends to sponsor any of the following construction or alterations must notify the Administrator of the FAA: </p>
<p>any construction or alteration exceeding 200 ft above ground level<br />
any construction or alteration:<br />
within 20,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 100:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with at least one runway more than 3,200 ft<br />
within 10,000 ft of a public use or military airport which exceeds a 50:1 surface from any point on the runway of each airport with its longest runway no more than 3,200 ft<br />
within 5,000 ft of a public use heliport which exceeds a 25:1 surface<br />
any highway, railroad or other traverse way whose prescribed adjusted height would exceed the above noted standards<br />
when requested by the FAA<br />
any construction or alteration located on a public use airport or heliport regardless of height or location.</p>
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		<title>By: Risenmessiah</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72096</link>
		<dc:creator>Risenmessiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72096</guid>
		<description>Armed with my trusty NewsMax Decoder Ring, it&#039;s pretty easy to figure out what the Journal is trying to say:

[blockquote] The Obama Administration as part of its love affair with big government, believes that the nation&#039;s deregulated and successful transportation system needs annother, perfunctory overhaul that will have government controlling more of the economy but forcing Americans to use trains. Commissar LaHood has made it clear that Fearless Leader believes that people will be powerless to resist his transformation of America if he can strike at the very core of national identity...free and fair passage between the states. [/blockquote]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armed with my trusty NewsMax Decoder Ring, it&#8217;s pretty easy to figure out what the Journal is trying to say:</p>
<p>[blockquote] The Obama Administration as part of its love affair with big government, believes that the nation&#8217;s deregulated and successful transportation system needs annother, perfunctory overhaul that will have government controlling more of the economy but forcing Americans to use trains. Commissar LaHood has made it clear that Fearless Leader believes that people will be powerless to resist his transformation of America if he can strike at the very core of national identity&#8230;free and fair passage between the states. [/blockquote]</p>
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		<title>By: Risenmessiah</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72095</link>
		<dc:creator>Risenmessiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 00:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72095</guid>
		<description>[blockquote]

Ontario is planned to be the size of present day Phoenix.

[/blockquote]

What? Phoenix is over 500 square miles, Ontario is barely 50. Perhaps you meant the airport?

In any case, it&#039;s wishful thinking that Ontario is going to become the second city in the LA Metro area. Los Angeles World Airports (i.e. the City of Los Angeles) owns Ontario Airport and would be just tickled pink if the arrival of HSR kept pressure off it&#039;s flagship airport, LAX by allowing Ontario to serve more passengers and possibly have more international flights.

Instead, in all likelihood HSR will just spur a housing bubble outside of Riverside in the Inland Empre and do little to make this a reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[blockquote]</p>
<p>Ontario is planned to be the size of present day Phoenix.</p>
<p>[/blockquote]</p>
<p>What? Phoenix is over 500 square miles, Ontario is barely 50. Perhaps you meant the airport?</p>
<p>In any case, it&#8217;s wishful thinking that Ontario is going to become the second city in the LA Metro area. Los Angeles World Airports (i.e. the City of Los Angeles) owns Ontario Airport and would be just tickled pink if the arrival of HSR kept pressure off it&#8217;s flagship airport, LAX by allowing Ontario to serve more passengers and possibly have more international flights.</p>
<p>Instead, in all likelihood HSR will just spur a housing bubble outside of Riverside in the Inland Empre and do little to make this a reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Andre Peretti</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72094</link>
		<dc:creator>Andre Peretti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 23:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72094</guid>
		<description>The reason for the SNCF&#039;s keeping TGVs at least 70% full is that fewer trains means less money spent on tolls and drivers&#039;salaries. It even tried 85% but there were too many complaints from passengers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason for the SNCF&#8217;s keeping TGVs at least 70% full is that fewer trains means less money spent on tolls and drivers&#8217;salaries. It even tried 85% but there were too many complaints from passengers.</p>
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		<title>By: dejv</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/03/get-on-the-train/comment-page-1/#comment-72090</link>
		<dc:creator>dejv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2940#comment-72090</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I mentioned integrated ticketing and scheduling in the German examples (there are others) because the know-nothing “objection” to non-monopoly service provision is that those must be lost. That’s not the case, in Germany or France or in Sweden or where ever: if the tendering process is undertaken competently then the public doesn’t know and doesn’t care about who is being paid to run the trains. What they notice is more trains, cleaner trains, running more reliably, a better attitude from the employees they encounter, and no increase in the tax subsidies and fares they pay.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I completely agree with that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Or you can have Amtrak now and forever.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m not in Amtrak area. It&#039;s kind of similar though, we&#039;re stuck with another dreadful monopoly over here and it won&#039;t change in at least another 10 years. :( The DOT and regional governments managed to sign 10-year agreement just days before new EU rules requiring tenders kicked in.

Well my original point was that every system had its strenghts and weaknesses and Germany happens to lack anything else besides the funding.

The first system that will see actual HS competition will likely be Italy, where they finished HS spine recently and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ntvspa.it/en/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NTV&lt;/a&gt; is procuring new AGVs to dig into Frecciarossa market starting next summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I mentioned integrated ticketing and scheduling in the German examples (there are others) because the know-nothing “objection” to non-monopoly service provision is that those must be lost. That’s not the case, in Germany or France or in Sweden or where ever: if the tendering process is undertaken competently then the public doesn’t know and doesn’t care about who is being paid to run the trains. What they notice is more trains, cleaner trains, running more reliably, a better attitude from the employees they encounter, and no increase in the tax subsidies and fares they pay.</p></blockquote>
<p>I completely agree with that.</p>
<blockquote><p>Or you can have Amtrak now and forever.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not in Amtrak area. It&#8217;s kind of similar though, we&#8217;re stuck with another dreadful monopoly over here and it won&#8217;t change in at least another 10 years. :( The DOT and regional governments managed to sign 10-year agreement just days before new EU rules requiring tenders kicked in.</p>
<p>Well my original point was that every system had its strenghts and weaknesses and Germany happens to lack anything else besides the funding.</p>
<p>The first system that will see actual HS competition will likely be Italy, where they finished HS spine recently and <a href="http://www.ntvspa.it/en/" rel="nofollow">NTV</a> is procuring new AGVs to dig into Frecciarossa market starting next summer.</p>
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