Amtrak Seeks To Become An HSR Operator
Yonah Freemark at the Transport Politic today examines Amtrak’s reorganization plan, which revolves around their decision to pursue HSR operations:
Suddenly forced to reckon with the prospect of serious competition from foreign companies, Amtrak has announced an internal reorganization that prioritizes the development and implementation of high-speed rail service in the United States. In addition, the publicly-owned train operator has announced for the first time that it will perform serious feasibility studies about implementing 220 mph service between Washington and Boston.
The creation of Amtrak’s new High-Speed Rail Department is designed to publicize the company’s experience in existing U.S. rail corridors and extend its reach to new high-speed routes being funded through the federal government’s grant program whose first recipients were rewarded earlier this year. Amtrak announced in January its interest in pursuing operations along the Florida line between Tampa and Orlando, expected to be the first true high-speed route built in North America when it opens in 2014.
French rail company SNCF and Japanese operator JR Central have both expressed their respective interest in running the same service.
Freemark also explained that part of this includes Amtrak’s desire to upgrade the Acela route to speeds of 220 mph, whereas as recently as last fall they weren’t thinking quite that ambitiously.
He also argues that Amtrak has a “credibility gap” to deal with before it can be seen as a serious competitor to the likes of SNCF and JR Central:
Decades of slow, poorly performing operations across the country have given the public company somewhat of a bad name, especially when compared to those of many of its foreign competitors, which have been running fast trains for decades.
It’s not just the slow trains or the financial losses. Here in California, it’s also the problems with Amtrak’s operations.
The Capitol Corridor has become one of the most effective intercity passenger rail routes in the Amtrak corridor. It has increased its farebox recovery rate and seen steady ridership growth even before the gas price spike of 2008. The route’s management has had a good working relationship with Union Pacific – no easy feat – and has been able to increase service over the last decade, building a strong ridership base.
But one of their ongoing areas of concern has been Amtrak itself. Capitol Corridor management has often expressed frustrations with Amtrak’s operation of the route, from occasional concerns about staff to frequent concerns about the long turnaround times and other problems at their Oakland maintenance facility. As an Amtrak California service – funded through Caltrans – these concerns have been known to administrators and politicians in Sacramento, and will be something Amtrak has to address if they’re going to make a bid to operate California HSR trains.
Amtrak has generally received good reports on its operations of the Acela trains. But they will still have a difficult time countering the expertise that companies like SNCF and JR Central can bring, the latter having nearly 50 years of experience operating trains (and SNCF’s 30 years is nothing to sneeze at either). Other potential operators might get involved, such as Veolia (which operates the Metrolink trains) and even Virgin, which operates trains in Britain.
It’s good to see Amtrak taking steps to address some of its previous weaknesses. I don’t want to make it sound like Amtrak either has no chance or would be an inappropriate choice to be an HSR operator, but clearly they have a bigger hill to climb than their competitors. Let’s hope that the infusion of funding Amtrak is receiving under President Obama will help Amtrak embrace HSR more effectively. With this reorganization it looks like that’s already started.
To be frank: I can only hope Amtrak loses its bid to run California’s system
French and Japanese trains run on time (at fares substantially cheaper than Amtrak’s), without the signaling and the overhead power system breaking down on a regular basis. Granted, that isn’t Amtrak’s fault, but I’d rather go with a company that has a proven record of successfully providing 350kmph service rather than a company that happens to be American.
Also, Amtrak’s 220mph aspirations can’t happen. The entire point of the Acela brand was to try to provide something that could be called “high-speed rail” without ACTUALLY making the investment in a system to provide such service. No politicians wanted to create a right-of-way that would provide decent service, so they created a disgustingly-overweight and haphazard system that could squeeze a few extra miles-per-hours out of the many curves and slow zones on the Northeast. Hence, Acela rarely clocks 150mph.
In fact, between NYC and New Haven, my local Amtrak train took a grand 3 minutes longer than Acela to complete the 2 hour journey (merely because the regional train stopped a few times more)
Joey Reply:
March 23rd, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Yeah, the Acela sucks. Which is why it’s time to look at upgrading it (possibly replacing entire segments).
EJ Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 11:38 am
To be fair, NYC to New Haven is the slowest mainline segment on the entire NEC.
EJ Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 11:50 am
If Amtrak can make Acela a success (which it is), given it’s onerous regulatory environment, antique infrastructure, sharing its tracks with freight trains, etc., running a modern, fully-upgraded HSR system should be a snap.
EJ Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Dammit, “its”
I swear, I know how to write good.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
You could argue it the other way: if Amtrak can take an intercity line connecting New York with Washington, Philadelphia, and Boston, and barely break even on it, then it has no business running line with lower demand.
Victor Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 5:24 pm
And considering Amtrak for Decades was starved of funding and is at the Tender Mercy of the Dominating Freight Railroads that would rather see Amtrak dissolved(As Amtrak was imposed on the Freight Railroads as they had discontinued their own passenger rail operations back then and so that’s why Amtrak was created, to preserve rail passenger operation), I can guess that those in Amtrak could later on only watch what foreign passenger rail did in HSR and so Amtrak had to do the same old same old thing, As Amtrak was never allowed to be able to make any attempt at more than preserving and maybe enhancing their operations with new equipment, But enough to do HSR? Nope, I’d think they thought that was a futile exercise considering the political climate was airplane happy and so they never talked openly about It, As why should they have?
“concerns about staff” what’s that suppose to mean? And as far as capitol corridor is concerned, I’d like to remind them that Surfliners are far more successful, thank you very much.
As far as amtraks challengers, lets not overlook their strong points which are significant.
We are americans.
We have an existing well train workforce in place.
We have an existing reservations system, and station services infrastructure in place.
We have maintenance facilities in place.
We have strong state partnerships and political relationships in place.
We have an instant, existing nationwide, loyal, customer base in place that would mean instant ridership. Its a couple of keystrokes to get you off slow train and onto the fast train when you come to my window.
We have our marketing in place.
We have a state network of trains and thruway buses in place, and hsr would become part of that extensive network instantly.
Challenges perhaps but the challenges are no greater than the strong points listed above.
Just so you know.
Samsonian Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 11:42 am
We are americans.
Given our country’s track record, that’s more of downside…
We have an existing well train workforce in place.
First class HSR operations likely requires new training, so Amtrak has no built in advantage.
We have an existing reservations system, and station services infrastructure in place.
DB, SNCF, JR, etc. all have established reservation systems too, and they can be bought off the shelf as well. The infrastructure is going to be built by the state.
We have maintenance facilities in place.
Also built by the state.
We have strong state partnerships and political relationships in place.
If it were as strong as you say, Amtrak wouldn’t have to fight for crumbs every year. It would be in no worse position than SNCF or DB in their home countries’.
We have an instant, existing nationwide, loyal, customer base in place that would mean instant ridership. Its a couple of keystrokes to get you off slow train and onto the fast train when you come to my window.
That’s true, but for some Amtrak has a reputation be being slow and unreliable. It takes time to change those perceptions.
We have our marketing in place.
HSR warrants a large marketing campaign, which are run by ad agencies.
We have a state network of trains and thruway buses in place, and hsr would become part of that extensive network instantly.
This is the one area where Amtrak, especially Amtrak California, has a built in advantage. If Amtrak California committed to re-investing profits into the rest of Amtrak California system, that’d be a great deal.
However, the foreign operators could likely be an investor in the system (reducing the state’s up-front cost), and make it up on the back end. At least that’s the impression I get when I’ve heard CHSRA officials talk about. Given the funding shortfall, and the lack of a federal transport bill, we may be forced into such an arrangement despite it not being ideal.
Kevin Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 12:12 pm
We have an existing reservations system, and station services infrastructure in place.
No strong comment on the others, but using Amtrak’s reservations system for HSR would be a strong disincentive for me.
If I travel on DB, I can reserve an actual seat — my ticket has a wagon number, and a seat number. On the train, each seat has a clear indication of whether it’s reserved, and if so, what part of the journey it’s reserved for — both so that there’s nobody sitting in my seat when I get on, and so those who didn’t pay extra for the seat reservation know what’s free. Has even Acela moved beyond first-come, first-served seating?
If I’m traveling as part of a group of people, DB lets you reserve a contiguous block of seats together. Contrast that to a California-to-New Mexico trip I took on the Southwest Chief with a group of Boy Scouts a couple of years ago — not only was the conductor totally flabbergasted to find out that fifteen people were getting on the train at Fullerton, we had to spread out across four cars and two levels because random, scattered single seats were all that was available.
Amtrak’s 1950s-style ticketing has that warm, olde-tymey railroad feel, but let’s hope that a premium service like HSR will be able to do better.
Matthew Melzer Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 8:38 pm
Actually, Amtrak is slooooooowly upgrading its ARROW system, so it will be electronic in the coming years. Limited tests are underway nationwide. As with many capital upgrades at Amtrak, money and/or will have been lacking.
This is the *one* thing CAHSR must include vis a vis Amtrak, seamless connectivity with its reservation system. There is no excuse for any one HSR system to sell tickets only for its own trains and not connecting commuter and intercity trains. The situation is bad enough in SoCal, with separate ticketing and fare structures for the two commuter agencies and Amtrak, and very little schedule coordination between the three. One can now purchase Amtrak tickets from Metrolink vending machines, but it doesn’t solve the larger problem that the various agencies fail to coordinate their fares and schedules.
Amtrak already has a reservations and ticketing infrastructure and a loyalty program. I hope that future federal transportation bills require that all HSR and HigherSR projects that are federally-funded make good faith efforts to coordinate fares and schedules with connecting services, and require that they use Amtrak’s reservations system. The carrots should be money targeted to bring Amtrak’s system into the 21st century.
And in the 21st century, there is absolutely no excuse to not be able to log on to one web site to purchase a ticket from San Diego to Vancouver. The public won’t care if the first segment is operated by JR, the second by Amtrak, and the third by Keolis. They just want a ticket from Point A to Point B.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Jim, any competent operator can train new staff. Amtrak’s advantage is that they have experienced staff.
Acela is good enough for the vice president, but not good enough for joey. damn spoiled kids anyway.
Joey Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 7:30 am
I’d ride it, but as HSR goes, it leaves a lot to be desired.
JimSF, I do not think that comment is fair about the VP and Joey. The comments made above about how Acela is a typical government stop gap half hearted measure is completely true. The VP rides it because it is what is available, not because it is a well thought out and well designed piece of infrastructure.
To be honest, since I have gotten married I no longer ride the Acela. I can drive the route in about the same time and for considerably less money. I know I am not alone.
The biggest issue here in the northeast is that to do the NEC correctly will require a whole new run. And I am sure you can guess how easy stealing property to do it will be.
Many of the issues with Amtrak’s on time performance have little to nothing to do with Amtrak. The only problem with this is that Amtrak culture is used to just accepting this.
JP and SNCF are not used to having to run their trains on such mixed use lines. So anyone comparing that point is not being fair to the argument.
Usually the Party of No/Doom lambastes Amtrak because it no competition on these routes and is presumably wasteful because of it but you can be sure, just as day follows night, that the Party of Doom is going to oppose foreign (everyone panic– the French!!!) firms competing to operate these routes.
Bobierto Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
I keep thinking that. Look how successful Airbus was(n’t) at getting a Pentagon contract to build air tankers. Let the Chinese build our HSR? Highly unlikely. If the cars are built by Bombardier, that will be the extent of foreign involvement. Sorry to be so cynical but our recent political (lack of) processes has taught me to be so.
Andre Peretti Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Yet an Alstom-Kawasaki consortium beat Bombardier for 1400 New York subway cars (1000 for Alstom, 400 for Kawasaki, all Kawasaki bogies and all Alstom traction). By the way, these cars have beaten all reliability records, with 1,200,000 miles MDBF (mean distance before failure) instead of the required 100,000.
Nobody seems to have found anything wrong with their being French and Japanese.
Of course, the fact they both have plants in New York state may have helped.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Those are US branches of companies, building cars at US plants. It’s economic to build those plants because New York’s MTA is a gigantic agency and likes placing multi-billion dollar orders at a time. Nobody really cares where the profits go to. It’s the same deal with Bombardier in Europe: the profits go to Montreal, but the workforce is predominantly European, the design specs are European, and the headquarters is in Berlin.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:25 pm
…with Siemens parts in them. . . which probably came from Glorious Name Traction Motor Company and Extraordinary LED and Chip Foundry in China. If I remember correctly neither Alstom or Kawasaki made the car bodies and those came from Brazil and Nebraska. . .
Andre Peretti Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 5:55 pm
Alstom built the body shells at its plant in Lapa, Sao Paolo, Brazil, with some technology transfer from Kawasaki for invisible welding techniques. The body shell is said to represent about 30% of the cost of a car.
The first cars had Siemens traction, the time for Alstom to modify its Onix traction system to fit the Kawasaki bogies.
Bombardier said Alstom had won the bid because of low Brazilian salaries, but it beat Alstom in France for a bigger deal (€8billion) by having body shells built in eastern Europe, not in France. Tit for tat.
Anyway, Alstom and Kawasaki seem to be a winning team. Maybe they should renew the consortium and bid for CAHSR.
Any HSr operation in California is going to need a lot of new staff, and the operator’s ability to train them is critical. Amtrak has a slight advnatage in that it has staff in the USA already, but asking staff to come over form the East Coast to train people won’t be much cheaper than bringing them from Europe.
SNCF and JR have been mentioned, as has Virgin… but let’s not forget transportation companies such as FirstGroup (rail and bus in Europe, and they own Greyhound), StageCoach (rail operator, owns MegaBus), DB (operates high-speed and normal trains in Germany, owns a rail franchise in the UK, very keen on becoming a global force)… the list goes on. The choice boils down to Amtrak, an operator with proven HSR experience (SNCF/JR/DB), or an operator used to franchise type deals (any UK rail operator, or DB again).
What Amtrak needs is a HSR PARTNER. Surely the other companies have expertise that Amtrak could use.
I’m just looking at in terms of what’s best for the riding public whom I see everyday. I know where they want to go and how to get them there. With out Amtrak California’s extensive network, hsr is far less useful. Sure it will serve the point to point city pairs on its route, but that leaves out the rest of state, place where amtrak is the only provider. So if hsr wants to lose out on all those customers, we will keep them. If some one is traveling from Eureka or Chico, or Yosemite or Reno/Tahoe, through down the valley they are more likely to use a through ticket, on a through connection from say tahoe to fresno rather than buy two separate tickets from two separate agencies, at two different ticket windows on schedules that don’t mesh. This I know.
Of course there are various combinations of partnering that could be done. For instance, we don’t sell caltrain tickets, but the caltrain ticket clerks are amtrak employees as are the caltrain conductors. We also don’t sell metrolink tickets, though metrolink is once again operated by amtrak.
I would think we would be able to ticket all of the above. It would be far more helpful if we provided through ticketing on hsr in conjunction with amtrak statewide bus and train feeder service, as it would mean the best end product for the california traveler.
I understand the purists on this blog who think only a “real” foreign operator can do the job, and who want hsr to be its own single entity operated in a vacuum as a piece of pure modern transport unfettered by existing realities. But that isn’t what’s best for the traveler who wants maximun access to the state, a single stop ticket experience, and a coordinated network.
my guess is that hsr wil have to play with amtrak california or go without everything we bring to the table.
Joey Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Amtrak might be a good choice, but they are going to have to massively modernize their practices in order to cope with California’s HSR system. I like Missiondweller’s idea of a partnership between Amtrak and some foreign operator who could bring much needed expertise to the table.
look at it this way… take the students at say chico or davis or berkeley, all have amtrak stops fairly close to the campuses. Say they want to go to fresno. They’d have to take amtrak to merced, then tranfer to hsr. Its unlikely they will at that point. especially if, hsr does use a different row and the stations are across town from each other.
it really just makes a mess of things if you ask me.
as for the existing political relationships, I was referring to the last 20 years of building relationships with lawmakers in sac, not DC, with UP and BNSF, and with Caltrans as well as metrolink and other agencies and with the various carriers who make up the thruway services.
An outsider will have to forge these relationships from scratch. That can be done of course but why go through all that? Plus, what are you gonna have .. two separate sets of thruway connecting services? No compatible ticketing so that someone travel across parts of the state where only one segment out of 3 or 4 is served by the hsr operator, will have to in some cases, not only have to go to separate lines, separate ticket window, separate websites, but in some cases, go across town to separate stations, in order to complete their trip.
This is exactly the kind of of balkanized approach the folks on this blog normally complain about.
But hey knock yourselves out. just remember competitors are going to compete, partners will work together. which would you rather see?
I just don’t see the common sense in hsr just ignoring network like this. or spending more money to duplicate it. And if they have to pay labor costs for a whole statewide staff, they will have to raise prices to cover that costs. hsr will become a fairly expensive premium service, that will not serve our valley and IE customers due to cost. And it wil become as some have charged, a fancy train for rich business folks, and unable to offer the eight dollar and 50 cent senior fare to stockton that we offer.
I mean ill be near retirement so I don’t care, but it just doesn’t make sense to further balkanize our states transportation network when we should be doing just the opposite.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
So, how is this relationship with UP going anyway? Did you guys finally get priority over freight trains, or do Zephyrs and Starlights still sit on sidings every time a coal train is late?
jimsf Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Its going well and the zepyhr generally arrives an hour ahead of schedule. And judging by the lack of ot on my paycheck, the starlight has been on time every night as well.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
The latest monthly performance report states that the OTP of the Zephyr is 53%, and that on average trains arrive at the destination 48 minutes late, on top of a 5-hour schedule padding.
However, the Starlights have an OTP of 89%, which in Amtrak Land is considered acceptable (in Japan, heads would roll over this). But the schedule is padded 4 hours.
elfling Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Zephyr can also get delayed by a ship going through the drawbridge at Martinez. I’m not sure who manages that timing.
jimsf Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
I don’t think you know anything about it.
Joey Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
Generous schedule padding keeps the trains from being late most of the time. It means that they sit in the station for 30 minutes when there are no delays, however.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Everyone pads the schedules. Looking at Shinkansen schedules, you’d never know the trains are capable of slowing down from top speed, dwelling at the station, and accelerating back, losing only 3 minutes in the process.
Joey Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 3:11 pm
Schedule padding is fine, but THAT KIND of schedule padding shouldn’t be necessary.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
I know – hence my other comment in this sub-thread.
At any rate, let’s assume all delays on the Zephyr are due to UP being an asshole. Why does Amtrak keep coming up short in OTP on its own Northeast and Keystone Corridors?
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Sometimes it’s because the octogenarian physical plant has a bad hair day.
Andre Peretti Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
The SNCF could be contracted by Amtrak as a consultant, as in Taiwan. SNCF staff and drivers would train the locals until, mission accomplished, they retire. I am sure SNCF and Amtrak people would get on very well as they share the same union mentality. Things would certainly be more difficult with the Japanese. A French driver would never accept to be constantly harassed by orders from the “control tower”, and neither would an American. A French driver gets his punctuality bonus if he is less than 5 minutes late.
As for Veolia, they have no experience in running HSR. Many cities appreciate them because they are cost cutters and manage to run transit systems with little or no subsidies, or even with a profit in the case of Luas, Dublin’s light rail system. They are not considered union-friendly. Not in France, anyway.
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
Forget SNCF: contract with ADIF and RENFE.
Directly close a Spanish line here, using Spanish consultants, trains from Spain, SI units, Spanish civil engineering skill, and only Spanish language documents, communication and signage.
We have plenty of fluent and competent and trainable Spanish speakers in California to run the trains and do the maintenance and build the thing.
But most importantly we’d cut out the ignorant, unqualified, non-achieving, incompetent, proven failure, English native speaker (hey, I’m one, and I’m all for better people doing the job), cretins who are are running this thing into the ground using their own special techniques of Financial Engineering and American Railroading Know How.
Use the right people for the job.
jimsf Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 9:21 am
That would never fly here and you know it.
Peter Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 10:43 am
With all due respect to the many spanish-speaking workers that live here, most of them are unskilled laborers, who at best have graduated from high school. They work harder than I ever have or ever will in my life, but I don’t see them as the right workforce to build, operate and maintain a high-tech modern railroad.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 11:29 am
On the contrary, Peter. While Hispanic-Americans have lower overall education rates than white Americans, most have completed high school, and many have completed college. Please don’t let stereotypes color your view of everyone.
The issue is actually the opposite: Hispanic-Americans have received most of their education in English, not Spanish. Their spoken Spanish is fine for everyday interaction, but they may not know enough technical Spanish.
And the real problem is political anyway – California’s full of entitled Anglos who think that bilingual education and bilingual signage emasculate them, let alone using Spanish in technical documents.
Peter Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 7:27 pm
I was referring to mono-lingual spanish speakers above, sorry if I didn’t make that clear. I thought that was what Richard was referring to.
But to pick a Spanish design for HSR because a lot of people here speak Spanish… The same could be said about Chinese or Japanese. You could even find sufficient French or German speakers in the state to run the operations. Richard’s comment above was just stupid.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Veolia also has a bad reputation in Southern California, where it’s been blamed for the 2008 Chatsworth disaster where a Metrolink train ran head-on into a UP freight train.
EJ Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 9:07 am
A French driver would never accept to be constantly harassed by orders from the “control tower”, and neither would an American.
Where did you get this idea? TGV drivers have to regularly report in to the dispatcher. They also have to press a button every 30 seconds or so when a chime sounds, to prove they are still alive, or they emergency brakes activate.
I meant this network ( forgot the link)
of course another possible as discussed here as far desert express..
the state could manage the infrastructure and allow multiple operators to lease track rights… then virgin, amtrak, DX, and whomever else, could run competing services.
Samsonian Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
the state could manage the infrastructure and allow multiple operators to lease track rights… then virgin, amtrak, DX, and whomever else, could run competing services.
That would be my ideal.
The only catch is that the public has to front all the cost to do so. That wouldn’t be a problem if we had the political will, created a National High Speed Rail program ala the Interstate Highway Act, and funded it in a similar manner.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
This isn’t a very smart way of running trains – it screws up schedule coordination completely. It also creates problems with train standards. If JR Central runs a train with an 11.5-ton axle load, and Amtrak runs a train with a 25-ton axle load, how should the track owner price the companies? And how will the optics look if Amtrak complains that it has to pay more than foreigners to operate service?
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Wrong. Wrong.
The way it works out there in the big bad non-US world is that the infrastructure authority defines the timetable (allocates paths) and defines the technical standards, including timetable adherence, that any operator seeking to run trains must meet.
Amtrak fails on all counts and wouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the tracks. In contrast, others with some level of managerial and technical competency could bid to operate technically compatible trains with contractually guaranteed levels of reliability in available slots of the coordinated schedule.
Let Me Google That For You: “Network Statement” (in the European context.)
Spokker Reply:
March 24th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
If an operator is screwing up the line with underperforming trains can they be kicked off in a timely matter or would bureaucracy get in the way?
Alon Levy Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Richard, you’re talking about the Swiss way of separating infrastructure and operation. Jim’s talking about the British way, which has separate brands and no coordination.
The Swiss way wouldn’t work in the US because the standards would be horrendous – multiple conductors per train, heavy axle loads, hour-long turnaround times. Reforming the standards would make it work better, but then there would be no reason to have this competition, instead of just run trains on operator-owned infrastructure.
jimsf Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 12:46 pm
I think that you can have an operator, a single operator for the hsr line and leave it at that, and it could be anybody and that’s fine. MY point is though, that it would be both a waste of potential, and and inconvenience to travelers, to have the existing statewide rail and bus network, separate and uncoordinated from the hsr service. The hsr operator could of course invest in their own feeder network that would duplicate what already exists but this would be a waste of resources, be they public or private epsepcially keeping in mind that the private operator must, out of its revenue, pay for labor and other costs.
What I don’t know is
Who will actually own the tracks? The state?
Who will purchase and own the trainsets” The state or the operator?
Who will pay for the construction of, and own the stations? The state? The individual cities, (sf/la for isntance) or the operator? Will the operators(carriers may be the better term) pay rent for station space in the station buildings that are built by the cities or state in each location?
Or will it be a self contained all in one BART style situation. mean are any of these details spelled out yet? Who builds the fresno station? fresno or the athourity. Currently, in most cities, the cities own the train stations.
Clearly there are two schools of thought. Are we to have existing regional service compete with hsr with each not cooperating with the other? You can do it that way, as most people who ride say, san joaquin services, are not going to pay an extra 10 or 20 dollars to ride hsr. ( they already flip out when they by a last minute ticket for 13 in 10 bucks.) They flip out over a 3 dollar price difference. So you could have this high end service for the wealthier californians and the slow service for the poor folks, never the two shall meet.
or do you somehow combine the two?
Or will there be subsidies to keep fares low enough for the low income people in valley to continue to ride?
I mean none of this clear.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
all of it is things that other operators figured out in 1850 or so.
Joey Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Tracks and rolling stock will be owned by the state. Stations are an unknown, though it is likely that any city that doesn’t put up any money will just get a bare-bones station.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
Jim, the pricing issue depends on which operator’s philosophy is adopted. SNCF brags about its yield management system, where every person pays a different fare for the same seats. But the Shinkansen and KTX systems list simple tables where you look up the stations of origin and destination, add any special fees like super-express service, and read your fare.
US low-speed rail is so low-quality that I doubt anyone’s going to use it as the third-class service. What may be more likely is that like in Japan, all-stop trains with unreserved seats will be cheaper, effectively acting as price discrimination.
It’s unlikely California will go for UK-style separation of infrastructure and operations. It’s not what American railroads are used to, it’s not what Japanese and French consultants are used to, and it’s not mandated by law.
jimsf Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Alon-elitist – What exactly is so low quality about the successful amtrak california service that made it from from practically non existent 20 years ago, to being the the most successful rail network in the country?
Joey Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Successful or not, Amtrak needs to modernize its practices.
jimsf Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:44 pm
what does that even mean? modernize what practices?
jimsf Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
you want us to make you take off your shoes, and charge you for baggage? Take away food service? or do you want us to switch to transporter beam technology? What is so complicated about riding the train right now that puts you out and creates a burden? I mean you buy your ticket, online, by phone, from a real human, or from a kiosk, or even from the conductor on board, thats 5 choices, how much easier can it be? YOu get up to 5 pieces of luggage, 3 checked and two carryons for FREE, to most destinations… No one else gives you service like that in america. There are no fees to exchange tickets. 99 percent of all tickets are refundable. I mean amtrak bends over backwards for passengers and ticket prices that are so low that it makes europeans jaws drop everyday at my window. Those same europeans and asians that so many of you worship, adore american trains and don’t speak all that highly of their own. yes thats a fact. I know cuz I ask them, daily. to get the real story. So aside from a nationwide 19th-20th century physical plant, that doesn’t even belong to amtrak.. what exactly is the big problem that requires so much effort as to make it unbearable?
Joey Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 6:56 am
Modernize the part where you don’t have reserved seats and the part where you line up in the station to have your ticket checked.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 7:46 am
Seat choice, would be a good idea, but that is something that would require more staff to enforce. I think it would be difficult and time consuming to implement considering staffing levels at the ticket window and on board. The lining up at the station Ive never seen or heard of that. Where do you do that?
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 8:41 am
Jim, I don’t see why seat choice would have to be enforced by the staff unless there is an issue. In Europe you simply point to the tag above the seat and point out that that is your seat. If the person in your seat doesn’t move, then you get the conductor. Otherwise, I haven’t noticed more than two conductors on each train, so there’s apparently no need for additional staffing on board the trains.
When you buy your tickets online or well in advance you get reserved seating. Otherwise you just pick whatever’s available.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 8:59 am
It would be easy enough to upgrade arrow, but it would be more time consuming in that people would be constantly coming back to ticketing to change their seats and I think it may be problem when there are service disruptions and equipment has to be moved to accommodate such disruptions.
Of course thats separate from a fully self contained hsr system. But in the real world of US rail thats just how it works by necessity.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 9:16 am
Do you think that a likely problem if you charge people for reserving their seat and changing their reservation? That’s what happens in Europe… I doubt the ticket offices have been overwhelmed
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Peter, see, this is what I don’t understand about people. We did away with charges – nickel and diming the public to death. This type of thing is exactly what has driven many an airline passenger into our arms. We take pride in being able to still offer personal, human, service without charging for every little thing. Too often, modernization and so called “convenience” come at too steep an un civilizing price. Just like the ticket machines. I can’t get people to use them. They don’t LIKE using machines. They feel put off by the suggestion. They want real people. I have ladies who check there 12 oz hand bag from san francisco to stockton in checked baggage because they like that service.
Life is not all about speed and modernization. I have been around long enough to tell you that every single bit of progress that was sold to us since the 60s, has done nothing but complicate and add stress to our lives.
slow down. and no, we are not going to start charging for this that and the other. Its a shady, tacky, cheap ass way of conducting business in my opinion. Of course generation raised in our current culture wouldn’t know anything else.
When people come with an exchange, I love when they are so surprised and happy that its not going to cost them a fee. As for charging for seat choice. Very few would pay the extra. This I know. ( note: the only ones who go to the ticket machine are the kids, sad that they prefer that to human interaction.)
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:09 am
How does charging for something new, that isn’t being offered yet, nickel and diming the public?
The problem with the airlines is that they’ve been offering all these services for free for decades, and THEN they start charging people for them.
I’m not suggesting you start charging people for checking their handbags. People are just going to get pissed if they are charged for something that has been offered to them for free forever.
What I am suggesting is that for a new service (reservations) you can make the reservation in advance for a fee. If you don’t want a reservation, nothing changes and you just go through the free-for-all for a seat. So nothing changes.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:23 am
peter- ah yes I see your point. Well, we do this in first class, on trains with sleepers. I suppose trains such as surfliners, which offer the business class upgrade, I think seat choice should be part of what’s included in that upgrade charge – seat choice, coffee, newpaper, etc. the upgrade on surfliners is nominal anyway. Why they don’t offer seat choice on acela, which is business and first only – no coach – I don’t know other than the fact that arrow needs upgrading and perhaps people haven’t made a fuss about it being an issue.
As far as seat choice on long distance routes. That too could be implemented. I’m just thinking in terms of people being mad at the counter when they can’t get the seat they want. It will be one more issue for an already over stretched staff to deal with. But its worth a try. Capitol corridor and san joa quin trains to not have the on board staff to handle it though nor do I think its necessary on such routes.
Also the casual nature of on the board experience, ( what does that mean? lol) is such that seat choice could be rendered irrelevant as people decide they’d rather sit here or there and they switch with each other. I mean its not like flying where everything you do is controlled. Its way too casual and americans are way more casual that way than either asians or europeans. I really have doubts as whether our passengers would even like it to tell you the truth. But its worth a try and could generate addtional revenue. It may even be in the works already. I’m not sure.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Oh yeah, I totally know what you mean in terms of changing seats. I’ve switched seats even after paying for reserving a different set of seats. They just happened to offer more room and weren’t reserved at all.
The way DB avoids people being mad about not getting a particular seat is by simply letting them state their preference of where they would like to sit. Window seats, aisle, or if multiple people are travelling together, both seats next to each other, etc. You don’t choose particular seats.
I wouldn’t advocate for seat reservations on commuter trains like Surfliner or Capitol Corridor. That would be overkill. However, for high speed trains I think it would be a good idea. Maybe Amtrak could experiment with it on Acela before taking over CA’s system.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:46 am
Def on acela. and for cali, surfliners are a good proving ground. Id try it with the business class upgrade. Also, there are plans to add busness class to ccjpa trains, the hold up has been lack of equipment and the need for flexibility in using existing equipment during heavy travel periods. Quiet cars are a big hit as well, but again, limited equipment can’t be restricted much. we have to make do a lot of the time.
I would hope that people would root for the poor stepchild of the us rail industry, seeing how we are the ones, the only ones really, who have, in spite of hateful politics, a starvation diet, a rag tag fleet, a media bias, and overwhelming competition from other modes, have managed to keep the rail travel experience alive an well in america. If amtrak had not been there for the past 40 nearly 40 years, no one under medicare age would even know what a train was and there would be no talk of high speed rail. The people at amtrak have been doing so much more with so much less for so long, than other carriers, one can only imagine what they could do with a real top notch railroad infrastructure.
but whatever. its my day off. Ill be in LA this weekend- hows the weather down there folks? I’d like to place an order for two days of sunshine and 85 degree temps with a mild sea breeze if that can be arranged. thank you
Kevin Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Yes, I’ve really enjoyed getting on Amtrak trains with groups and not being able to sit next each other (or even in the same car), or walking the length of a crowded train trying to find a pair of empty seats so that my wife and I can sit together. Very casual and relaxed — the perfect start to yet another tedious journey!
I’d definitely pay extra for seat choice — and it needs to be an option for HSR, no matter who the operator is. We aren’t paying $40 billion+ to end up with a very fast Greyhound bus.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 11:55 am
5 bucks extra on Greyhound and you go to the head of the line and get to pick your seat before hoi polloi get to board.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 12:05 pm
Southwest uses the same system, but that’s still not the same as knowing in advance what seat you’re going to get. Especially not if there are already people on the plane. Plus, it’s not practical on a train with multiple doors.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Amtrak manages to put First Class and Business Class onto trains that have multiple doors or Business Class and Coach onto trains that have multiple doors. . . not that the idiots standing on the platform listening to endlessly repeating announcements to wait at Location A for First Class or at Location A for Business Class listen to them. …
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
I think you may have missed my point…
I was saying that allowing people to pay extra to pick their seat ahead of others while boarding a train is not practical.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
You mean along the lines of waving cash at a conductor when he or she steps off the train that jsut arrived? No that wouldn’t work. Having people get a reservation for a seat, just like they do with airplanes or trains in other countries should work out reasonably well. People who are technophobes and can’t cope with clicking on an icon on a diagram of train can go to a ticket window where JimSF can ask them if they want an aisle seat or a window seat and he can explain to them how it works on the platform.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Exactly, which was my proposal.
jimsf Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
and since amtrak a) covers a lot more of california than hsr will, and b) has pool of interstate travelers connecting within california, it is in fact, very likely that they will opt to continue the last reasonable leg of their journey,,, chicago-sacramento-fresno for instance, as ticked through, on the same carrier. not to mention those on a usa rail pass and california rail pass. They are going to have to keep coach fares in the 30 dollar sf-fresno range for instance. Of course they can do this by charging a premium for first class and business class to subsidize coach.
No one really knows how this is going to turn out. I mean we are speculating on what the finished product will be.
A giant “set fare” stand alone bart style system?
Airline style fare buckets / yield management with multiple classes of service.
A caltrain style “zone” pricing system
Will the hsr operator institute a thruway network? or will it only run trains and youre on your own getting to and from those trains?
My guess, seeing how everything else is done in cali these days, is that we will wind up with an entity unto itself and the public will be left to put the pieces together.. as they stand on the corner, unfurled map in hand, blowing in the wind, trying to figure out how to get across town their next segment.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
Jim, let’s assume for a moment that the subsidy-hogging NorCal lines are better than the NEC, which for all its faults makes a profit. Being the most successful rail system in the US is still like winning the Special Olympics.
And no, Amtrak California doesn’t cover more than HSR will: it doesn’t connect Bakersfield with LA.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
First of all Alon, Im just trying to make suggestions and I don’t like your condescending attitude towards amtrak. Second, the CSI scores for amtrak in the west ( a measure of customer satisfaction) are in the 90s, HIGHER than acela’s.
and finally, amtrak includes thruway bus service, and you know that’s what I meant, and our network covers the whole state and you know it.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Also, do the Amtrak California lines really require very high subsidies? I thought they had relatively high farebox recovery. Of course, they are not “profitable,” but, again, there’s no reason to expect a public service to be profitable.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
and somehow amtrak in california has become very popular and we have hundreds of thousands of happy and loyal customers, even though the 9 people who read this blog have a problem with it. However will we survive?
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
but but Amtrak goes places where there are thundering herds of a dozen people a week geting on or off the train. Someplaces get up to an average of one passenger a train!
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
We serve those places for two reasons, one, because no one else does, and the state wants us to serve those places, its their decision, and two, to feel out for ridership corridors in some cases, where we run buses in order to build up for trains later ( coastal route, north valley, reno extension, etc.) The state has determined that these places be served, ( oh and high and low desert too ) And those people depend on us. You may not realize that outside your uppity little overly educated, ivory tower worlds, there’s a bunch of folks out there who just need a cheap ride and if you don’t like subsidizing people I suggest you start by kicking out all the illegals before you start taking stuff away from californians.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:07 pm
The only reason the train stops at those places is that the train carrying people between places that can fill up a car or two whenever a train stops, is passing through. The places that fill up whole cars at a time will have HSR. Take those places away and you are talking about serving stations that together would have trouble filling a once a day bus. It won’t be worth to run a train between those stations. Dial-a-ride airport shuttle style service would be cheaper and serve those passengers better.
Peter Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
… But if they’re along a route anyway, then why skip them over?
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
I was referring to the thruway service. But as far as say, san joaquin service, that wil be expanded and will extended north as well and its part of the national network Hsr can operate within california as a separate system, but amtrak still has passengers around the state who have thru tickets on the national network. They may choose to book on two different carriers, but a chicago merced trip, or a bakersfield flagstaff, or a seattle fresno passenger would like stick to the same carrier on a thru fare.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Jim, you don’t have to like my attitude. Just like I don’t have to like your condescending attitude to anyone who’s not American.
I mean, Amtrak California has a couple million customers per year, which means that it gets in two and a half years the same number of passengers JR East gets in a day. You can see why I’m underwhelmed, I hope.
For the subsidy figures, go to Amtrak’s monthly performance reports. The Surfliner is making small losses; the San Joaquin and Capitol Corridor are money drains. Then read the financial reports that the mainland JRs and Korail make available online, in English, and compare the results.
Finally: okay, the thruway network has better coverage than HSR. You’re right. But buses can be put everywhere. I think it’s almost certain that once CAHSR is up and running, the buses will be reconfigured to connect to HSR, which means service from the Sacramento Valley converging on Merced and SJ, and service from the High Desert to Palmdale. The point is that Amtrak’s core product is trains, and this product has a big gap in coverage that HSR is going to fill.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
likely san joaquin will become a redding-bakersfield service considering hsr will only serve the lower third of that for at least the next 20+ years. look
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
and again, those trains are also part of the national network. As for japan. You can’t compare rail ridership in japan with the united states period and you know that too. Two entirely different histories, cultures and demographics.
Joey Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
Japan is only a bad comparison because they have such incredibly high population density compared to most places. Take a look at, say, Spain though, and I doubt you’ll find anything like Amtrak’s numbers.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
^again, everyone here knows the story of passenger rail in the US and the lack of investment in the post war era. Europe is a totally different era. You can’t blame amtrak for the lack of rail in the US. Remember, the freight railroads dumped their passenger rail because americans did not want trains, and did not start wanting trains again until recently. The fact that amtrak coddled together some service to hold us over during the 40 year period when americans weren’t interested, in one you should be grateful for otherwise, rail would be starting from scratch, trying to introduce rail travel to the US.
“this is a t-r-a-i-n, it takes you from a to b. ” The fact that californians have been flocking in droves to state trains in the last 20 years, when the general consensus for the last 60 years has been that californians will not get out of their cars, is a testament to the amtrak caltrans partnership, and its this same population of train rider’s who’s eyes have been opened to even greater possibilites of hsr.
Joey Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Yeah, we all know that America is at least a century behind when it comes to rail travel. But as we modernize our rail system, Amtrak is going to have to change as well.
jimsf Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Well no duh. is that your whole point? Amtrak is changing. Ive seen the changes in the 10 years Ive been here, huge improvement. And even bigger ones in the works, ptc, arrow upgrades, new services, wi fi, a new fleet, and now this new hsr department, all of the above are in the works. So of course change has happened and is happening. Up next, you’ll be able to print your bar code at home and scan it on board with the conductor – not just at the quick track or ticket window. The whole focus of the company has shifted from survival to growth and progress and you aren’t going to find a 20,000 member workforce with the collective railroading experience anywhere else in america. So relax. Whether or not hsr in cali is operated by amtrak, many other corridors certainly will be. Besides, some foreign company is going to come in with one goal in mind, making a killing for shareholders, then they are gonna get board, or frustrated with the american way of doing things, then they are gonna bail after a few years. mark my words. just watch.
Risenmessiah Reply:
March 26th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
The key with a foreign operator is that they have no real desire to hire a union workforce. That’s going to make luring away Amtrak employees difficult and put them in a bind not unlike Metrolink had as it expanded. Make no mistake, this is about selling technology. The Florida project is just to get something up and running quick like so that the US can invest in the rolling stock and other goods and wares that the Alstroms of the world want to sell. Not that we can’t build the trains here and use our own technology here or anything….but it’s probably a way to prop up the trade deficit for a while longer.
The real question is will Amtrak be allowed to reorganize? If it has to break even on all rail passenger transit in the US…well that’s going to make it tough. But if it can bifurcate the HSR company and perhaps some other regional operations…then I think it has a future. But if it has to hold together the fracturing transportation network of the US on its own…then really…what can it do?
Alon Levy Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 1:40 am
Amtrak’s changing? Does this mean we can expect the Acela to get its average lateness under 1 minute anytime soon?
The part about US vs. Japanese culture is just wrong. Go back 50 years, and you’ll see an America that the rest of the world sets its watch to. My 1954 book on prejudice quotes a German praising the US for its punctuality. Japan had frequent strikes, and a bad railroad system. However, even then, it went for best. The Tokaido Shinkansen was based on American experiments with high-speed rail, but it used lighter equipment and built track with fewer slow zones. Amtrak’s proposing nothing of this sort; it’s just assuming that knowing how to run a vintage 1950s train is the same as knowing how to run a modern train.
EJ Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 8:38 am
@Alon
Jim doesn’t like non-Americans? Are you kidding? The guy is the biggest TGV fanboy on thi blog.
Alon Levy Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 11:31 am
He likes non-Americans when they stay outside the US. Talk to him about immigrants or about people who move into San Francisco and he’ll launch into hateful tirades.
jimsf Reply:
March 28th, 2010 at 9:36 am
not if they’re legal.
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
No, that’s the way it’s (supposed) to work Europe-wide. Switzerland is in the geographical and technical middle of things, but EU open access isn’t anything Swiss. Switzerland isn’t even part of the EU! (And France pretends like it isn’t part of the EU it comes to SNCF.)
Alon Levy Reply:
March 25th, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Regulation-wise, Switzerland might as well be part of the EU. The same deal is true in the other non-EU European states. The Norwegian phrase for it is “fax democracy” – the EU faxes regulations to Norway, which then has to implement them.
But no, I’m not talking about how the EU mandates everything to work in the future. How it works now is that the full track/operation separation in Britain, on which the EU rules are modeled, has destroyed any sense of transport unity.
Personally, Amtrak should not even be thinking about running CAHSR service. Instead, it needs to improve its existing service in the state. It also needs to focus more on being a NATIONAL carrier instead of jumping on the HSR bandwagon just because a major route gets funding.
I would go further and say that Amtrak losing out on HSR service could be THE BEST THING for it because the marketing department could potentially stress other aspects of travel in the areas that would have two operators. For the SF-LA market, Amtrak could hypothetically stress scenery over speed against DB, JRC, or whoever beats out them, and it could also use a loss to further upgrade the Capitols line, eventually setting it up to go directly against the foreign operator for Bay Area-Sacramento-Central CA travelers.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 6:48 am
Greyhound has the same scenery Amtrak does between Bakersfield and Los Angeles.
The Rail Enthusiast Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
The difference is that no one thinks much about Greyhound anymore. With train service, there are more amenities than on a bus.
What I’m talking about is more along the lines of the routing and the type of travelers Amtrak California and DB/JRC/SNCF/Virgin would go after. The latter operator may end up attracting business-oriented travelers while Amtrak would appeal to people who aren’t in any rush to get to their final destinations.
Tourists are the wild card along with CA residents. In Florida, HSR will be more tourist-oriented. It may end up being the exact opposite in the Golden State, which is where Amtrak California could counter DB/JRC/SNCF/Virgin. For example, leisure over speed could be emphasized with the Capitols and the planned Coast Daylight. Most of the HSR route will go past desert areas. The CD and Capitols don’t have any stretches of dry land.
With another player in the picture, Amtrak would have to step up its game, so a marketing campaign would be needed to tell Californians why their service will still be relevant in 10-15 years. Hence, the scenery over speed plan and the likelihood of expansion to places like Indio and Redding.
After all, over a half century ago, New York Central countered Pennsylvania Railroad with “the Water Level Route” slogan when both railroads went after New York-Chicago travelers (scenery over speed to perfection).
adirondacker12800 Reply:
March 27th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
The New York Central’s full slogan was “The Water Level Route – you can sleep” People don’t get a whole lot of sightseeing done while they are asleep.
I’d be quick to point out that unless there’s some secret backdoor to the HB-1 visa program…no matter who operates HSR, the employees are going to be American. I say that because well, it’s kind of obvious when you fly domestically and abroad that Europeans and Asians tend to be very courteous and professional as opposed to say flight attendants on American airlines. So it’s not reasonable to expect that just because there’s “foreign” management that you will get anybody “better” than someone who works for Amtrak. Indeed, because of the employee benefits Amtrak workers get….we might begging for them to save us from who SNCF hires instead.
Now, organizationally I think what needs to happen is a restructuring of Amtrak. HSR should be one company, overnight should be another, and express/intercity the last. Or it could be done regionally with a Amtrak HSR, Amtrak West, and Amtrak East. The reason is that the company is tied down to assets in one part of the country and it really doesn’t need to be. Moreover, as air travel reorganizes there’s probably going to be some East/West divide that the trains will have to provide feeder routes for….
DB looking at Arriva bid
Note that Arriva is largest competitor to DB, being able to run equal quality with lower price than incumbent DB. After some ten years they growed in regional rail bussiness, they started to bite into long-distance market with their Alex and Berlin Express services. DB doesn’t want this to continue so they’re trying to buy whole company…