HSR In The Jobs Bill
I’m here at San Jose Airport, about to board a flight to Burbank for a daytrip to LA. As usual, every time I do this I think “this would be so much easier on a high speed train” – especially since my ultimate destination is near downtown LA, meaning Union Station would be much more useful than any of the SoCal airports.
One way we can get HSR built on time and on budget is to push for more federal funding at every opportunity. That’s why Californians For High Speed Rail has asked its members today to call Senators Boxer and Feinstein and ask them to include funding for HSR in the Jobs Bill, which could be voted on as soon as today.
Economists like Paul Krugman have charged that the current version of the Jobs Bill in the Senate won’t create enough jobs as it is too focused on tax cuts and not focused enough on infrastructure spending. CA4HSR believes that including some funding for HSR would help create jobs and strengthen the overall bill, as well as help the California HSR project.
The Senate may not choose to include HSR in this particular bill. But by calling our Senators and showing support for HSR, we show them that the people of California wants HSR to get more federal funds, and that creates momentum to deliver those funds, either in this jobs bill, in the upcoming Transportation Bill, or by some other method.
HSR already has the funds required for Design and Build for 2011 and 2012 for all four segments it applied for. However, there are likely to be opportunities to make improvements in the complementary Amtrak corridors that can deliver improvements in complementary services.
Joey Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:25 pm
Really? Only 2.5 billion is available at this point, since 1A funds can only be used for 50% of the total cost.
Joey Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:52 pm
Sorry, I meant 4.5
BruceMcF Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:49 pm
That’s 2010 and 2011.
Design and Build segment costs, 2011: SF/SJ, $41m; Merced/Fresno $97m; Fresno/Bakersfield $150m; LA/Anaheim, $279m. Subtotal, $567m.
Program Implementation: 2010, $228m; 2011, $473m, Subtotal $701m
Vehicles 2011: $96m
Total: $1,364b.
Since that includes funding for activities that CHSRA can in fact sell bonds to finance (10% program spending and admin, no more than 2.5% admin), CHSRA is free to apply for funds from the annual appropriation at a 20% state : 80% federal match … indeed, free to apply for all of it … before having to start getting over the 50% funding threshold for individual segments in order to be able to use the balance of the funding authority.
YesonHSR Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:35 pm
Well no we only got half 2.5billion instead od 4.5 as requested ..now we could make up the 2.5 more with this jobs bill and what was allocated for HSR this year and so could some of the other corridors
Victor Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:17 pm
Actually the Stimulus payment was for $2.25 Billion($12.2 Billion if one includes prop 1a funding or $9.95+$2.25), Maybe the Transportation bill in Congress will help fund HSR in California.
Lets hope the security is improved with some of that money. I am getting really fed up with the publics behavior.
This attack on a conductor yesterday.
assault
This assault on an AC transit bus yesterday
assault
thats after two other recent widely publicized attacks on muni. In addition , a female co worker was accosted by an angry passenger at my ticket office this week, threatened and terrified by a man who missed his bus stop. and had to call her boyfriend for protection because we don’t have any security. This is one of many incidents.
rail employees should have the same protections as flight crews and all stations and trains should a police/marshall presence.
The general public act like feral animals.
ohyeah and last night a guy peed on the operator cab and floor on the subway.
Before we build anything new, we need to start busting heads and clean up what we have
Andre Peretti Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 4:12 pm
The fact that the attacks are publicised prove they are unfrequent enough to make news.
In the Paris suburbs they are just added to the statistics published every year. An, mind you, the conductors are very patient. They know that asking suburban youth for their ticket is provocation, but sometimes just looking at them is taken as an insult.
Employing ethnic drivers and conductors hasn’t improved the situation. They are despised for serving the French against their brothers.
By contrast, there is never any problem on intercity trains and even less on TGVs. Youth gangs never leave the suburbs. They would feel like fish out of the water.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:27 am
The problem isnt youth gangs, these are “regular people” who, more and more, act like they were raised by wolves. Even ordinary middle class young and middle aged folks, who get sloppy drunk, high, rude, pushy, and whatever else. The level of bad behavior across the board, including well heeled people is at a level I have never seen in my 45 years. There is a complete breakdown of basic civility. And I don’t think anyone under the age of 40 even knows how to pronounce etiquette let alone know what it means. its going to be a very ugly and scary world in another 20 years. Better arm yourselves.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:29 am
If, over the generations, the “Nattering nabobs of negativism” had been right, we’d all be living in caves now, not building bullet trains.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:39 am
Jim, crime rates have been trending down for 20 years. The people under 40 today are on the whole a lot less criminal than the people under 40 were in 1985.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:40 am
I should add: US crime rates have been trending down. Other countries may not have the same trend. I have no idea what the trend in France is, for example.
wu ming Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:13 am
but they are a whole lot less white, which explains some of the tone with which youth crime tends to get reported.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:13 am
obviously, you don’t work on the front lines of public transit.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:47 pm
Are there any long-term statistics, or are you basing this opinion on the last week or year of news headlines?
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:57 am
I’m basing it on 30 full continuous years of front line customer service experience dealing with the general public at large in a variety of capacities.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:36 pm
But no statistics.
Oh right, I forgot – you don’t like reports, or other forms of actual data :)
Alon Levy Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Not all crime occurs on transit.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:31 am
Even at the height of the crime wave in NYC one of the safest places to be was on transit.
Peter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 10:36 am
Yeah, because the bad boys in NYC knew they’d get shot by vigilantes on the subway if they tried anything.
Andrew Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:14 am
Japanese railway workers have to get special training now with how to deal with violent passengers, because incidents have been at a high. Most incidents involve drunken male passengers late at night, but more often than not it’s a sober passenger in the daytime getting angry at a railway staff member for whatever reason. Many Japanese seem to think that anyone wearing a uniform is there to serve them and will get impatient with them very quickly.
I can’t find the exact article that I read about the issue, but here’s a similar one.
synonymouse Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 am
Ronald Reagan convinced the people of California that sane people were being illegally declared insane and were being routinely institutionalized against their will. That was a ritchie rich scam to avoid spending any money on facilities for the mentally ill. And of course the ACLU also enables the practice of turning city streets into open air insane asylums.
Last week my son-in-law who has been taking classes in the SF Civic Center area was attacked by a street crazy. He got in a few punches back only to find out it was a woman in a hoodie. I guess the cops finally took her away as she had already tried to rob some other people.
“Open city” doesn’t work and iron-fisted military dictatorships don’t work, but I wouldn’t be surprized if we aren’t going to learn that again the hard way.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:32 am
syn – that is my neighborhood. I read reports like that on a weekly basis now. Another man was nearly stabbed ( he ducked) in front of my building this week. the guy across the hall was found dead in his apt by his gf a couple weeks ago – he had earlier been assaulted by a crazy on this block. and died later of injuries in his apt. Its not just in here in sf either, but in the burbs too. on bart, amtrak, muni, the police are completely useless as their hands have been tied by politics.
with the exception of on board the train. The assault on the conductor will be dealt with, they’ll have the book thrown at em. but here on the ground. we fend for ourselves.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:32 am
i keep a basball bat at my window.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:41 am
and a can of Febreeze.
mrcawfee Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:51 pm
After you beat them senseless you don’t want them to smell up your home!
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:24 pm
well, the spray is for the ones who stink up the whole lobby when they come in. I go through a can about every 4 days. Apparently bathing is no longer in vogue. However smelling like an ashtray floating in a still is very hot right now.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:49 pm
Wow, are you in the Tenderloin?
spokker Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:18 pm
lol you can’t accuse Amtrak of wasting money when it comes to compensation, that’s for sure.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:37 pm
pretty much all of san francisco can now be considered “tenderloin adjacent” we are on the waterfront actually. but this city is an open sewer nowadays. For the sake my sanity, and the sake of my passengers comfort and safety, I run a very tight ship, a very respectable lobby. I have zero tolerance for nonsense and bad behavior. No loitering, no begging, no soliciting of any kind, no harrassment, no loud music, no unruly behavior, no talking to the walls or the plants or invisible people, no ticket =no bathroom token. no money=no ticket. I will not have this place looking like the transbay terminal and that takes full diligence.
but I was gonna mention something… oh yeh, about siemans … wow they are hitting the radio ads hard, and kgo is the most powerful station on the west coast, 50,000 watts, ads aren’t cheap. and I heard siemans high speed train ads all night.
their trains look cheap and kinda uglytome. please dont pick those. they look like plastic toys. I think the alstom trains look so much more, strong and substantial. crap I hope we dont get those ice trains.
and unless your hair is on fire, please don’t cut in line… everyone else’s question is just as important as yours.
today was very pleasant though. Lots of tourists. They’re the best. 100 percent of problems come from fellow americans. We are quite a people.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
So you work the information counter at the Amtrak Ferry building? Sorry, when you talked about “the lobby”, I thought you meant where you live.
The few times I’ve travelled common carrier through California, I always thought the train people were a ton cleaner and calmer than the bus people (and definitely calmer than the plane people).
wu ming Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:19 am
given that the BART cops managed to shoot an unarmed passenger in the back of the head on the platform after they handcuffed him, i’m not sure i’d want their hands “untied.”
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 am
if people had been acting liked civilized adults, there never would have been a reason to call the cops in the first place.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Be careful what you wish for… BART is a lot like Greece, I think – as long as it only shoots minorities, people don’t care. The Greek riots started after the cops shot a native-born white guy.
mrcawfee Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:52 pm
I think it is unfair to blame BART police for the actions of one officer who may or may not have thought the gun was a Taser. (If he deserved to be Tased after he was on the ground is another matter…..)
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:03 pm
The first time that swaggering BART police shoot somebody in the back?
No cell phone cameras, no problem.
The second time that swaggering BART police shoot somebody in the back?
What, question A Brave American Hero?
The third time that swaggering BART police shoot somebody in the back?
He deserved it!
I feel much safer on BART when these characters are safely confined to their patrol cars somewhere in a parking lot in Orinda, or lurking outside a donut shop, than on the rare occasions when they do their big swinging show of force on the trains or in the stations.
“A noun, a verb, and 9/11.”
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:53 pm
I don’t think its a race issue for one. and two, i love it when people who live in nice suburban areas (southern california) and who drive to nice professional jobs and who shop in malls like newport fashion island and/or trendy “shopping districts” like melrose, or 3rd st promenade, and who work in nice professional jobs with other nice professional people in nice clean offices, sit back and speak idealistically about this stuff. It like when people who own cars talk about how public transit “should be”
when you live in the middle of “not the beautiful life” and you take the bus because you can’t afford a car, and not some youthful idealistic vision, its a whole different world.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:34 am
Jim, the people who protest the most consistently against cops shooting unarmed minorities are themselves minorities, often living in the ghetto.
Robert- being a resident of DC, I wish I had representation in Congress to advocate for this. It’s a national embarrassment that 600,000 people in our nation’s capital don’t enjoy any representation.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Except when the House of Representatives is sitting as the Committee of the Whole House, when you have representation.
Matthew F. Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:18 pm
While I pretty much agree that it’s a bummer, the constitutional amendment required would never pass – Republicans would see it as adding two Democratic senators, and with a 3/4th majority required… well, you can spell the rest out.
wu ming Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:24 am
no need for an amendment, you just define the district as including the capitol mall and federal buildings, and carve a new state (or fold it into MD or VA) out of the non-federal remnants. the constitutional district would remain, but sans the plantation.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Indeed, it could be arranged that the only permanent residents of DC were the President of the United States (and family) and the President of the Senate (and family).
One of the problems is that there are so many different ways to “fix the problem”, and so few that do not change somebody’s political balance of power somewhere. Make the district sans the mall and Federal buildings a state, and its two Democratic Senators … add it to Virginia it tilts the balance of power to Northern VA, add it to MD it really changes state politics … the only “fix” that didn’t rock many boats was the DC Congressman, which rested on the accident that the “next” Congressional district if one was to be apportioned among the states went to heavily Republican Idaho … but that is the one that excludes DC residents from voting for a Senator.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Without amending the Constitution it reverts to Maryland like the parts south of the Potomac reverted to Virginia. Maryland doesn’t want it.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 pm
I always knew Maryland was picky that way.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Changing state borders does not require changing the constitution, if both states involved and the Congress agree. Since the Constitution does not specify the extent of the District, making the Mall and a collection of Federal buildings “the District” satisfies the existing Constitutional requirements.
It would probably upset the balance of power even more in MD than VA … no way the DC suburbs of MD and the suburbs of Baltimore want urban DC and urban Baltimore state representatives ganging up in an urban caucus.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
When you shrink DC the stuff on the other side of the border reverts to being Maryland again. Congress could decide that effective noon on April 1st the borders change. The DC city council could vote to secede from Maryland at 12:01 PM and the Maryland legislature agree to it at 12:02. The DC city council could then petition Congress to become a state at 12:03 and Congress could agree to it at 12:04… but you can’t just decide that Washington DC becomes a state.
It needs to be viewed like any other federal project; you get a bunch of additional money each construction season over several years. That way it gets done, $4 or $5 billion at a time, over a nine or ten year period. The main planning challenge is to front-load it with the portions of the project that have spinoff benefits for other existing services and infrastructure. Not easy with the way the Peninsula crowd is acting. Maybe do all the grade-separations in the LA area first?
BruceMcF Reply:
February 22nd, 2010 at 7:55 pm
That’s what the Infrastructure Bank could enable. If there was an annual provision for the infrastructure bank included in the five year Transport Bill re-authorization, California could apply to get whole segments approved, without resorting to the “we ‘can’ provide 50:50 matching funds” gimmick that would have burned through the state bond authorization before the project was half finished.
CHSRA Yahoo Group’s Adrian Brandt forwarded a bunch more HSR news articles recently. Tonight, in fact. And I see again that mid-peninsula rags form a bulk of the forwards.
I don’t read each article…. certainly review the headlines and note the source before clicking… but I am increasingly forming the opinion that the mid-peninsula rags are a disfunctional incoherent group. They don’t make sense. I seems like, assuming they are an organized group, that they are throwing stuff against a wall to see what sticks. Or heck, maybe there are some wouldbe politicians looking for attention or trying to develop some name recognition???? Anyway… credibility has to be zero among those that are level headed.
Donk Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 am
Most of those articles are sickening. One of them was an editorial that stated that the HSR project was “probably” going to require El Palo Alto to be cut down. Another one reasoned that HSR would be delayed because Amtrak is always delayed. They also compared the travel time for HSR vs flying, and of course used the example of SF-SD since it would have the longest travel time, neglecting of course to mention that the same train would serve thousands of passengers in between.
I really don’t understand this visceral hatred towards HSR. This exact same debate has been going on for 10 years in LA with the Expo Line going “throught” the wealthy Cheviot Hills neighborhood. The CH residents were saying all kinds of ridiculous things and really were an angry bunch. Now finally the rational people have won the day, since the route traveling on a 100 year old railway adjacent to their neighborhood has been approved. The same thing will ultimately happen with HSR in the Peninsula, but it will be painful.
has the news about us rail car and american rail car getting together to push out the foreign competition for the manufacture of all us rail cars – freight and passenger, in the US been covered here yet?
wu ming Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:22 am
it might be worth trying the chinese method and doing joint ventures w/ technology transfer built into the agreements.
Peter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:05 am
Isn’t that what GE is doing with Chinese companies?
cismontane Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:46 pm
Doesn’t CAHSR already have some sort of MOU with the Chinese national rail company to get their expertise in building our system?
http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/images/chsr/20091201145728_Agenda_Item_4_-_Chinese_MOU.pdf
this isn’t the same article I got on the fax today but it covers it
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:16 am
Hmmm….
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:35 am
just don’t let Toyota build the trains. Sure I want to get to LA quickly, but I want to be able to stop when I get there.
Peter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:40 am
But with Toyota we might be able to get there a lot faster than we intended to.
That’s a benefit, right?
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:51 am
lol yes, as long as we have clear tracks ahead.
Im still lighting candles for AGV though.
Peter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:59 am
If AGV is successful in Italy, I think it would be pretty sweet.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:17 pm
look
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 12:25 pm
note the first and business classes and conference/business cars, starting from 3:50 to the end, and how bout that ending, with what looks like the mojave to me….
HSRforCali Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:20 pm
That’s what I noticed when I first saw this video, that the train’s surroundings resembled that of the Mojave Desert.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Well, they are trying to sell some in Italy and Spain as well.
Peter Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:36 am
Sounds like someone will be pushing the Velaro for CA…
the good news is this means thousands of good jobs for american, regardless of who builds what, and with a huge demand for not only hsr rolling stock, but conventional as well, there should be plenty of work to go around to every body, in many regions.
wu ming Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:21 am
this is fantastic news, especially if it means they’re going to start expanding and replacing low-speed rolling stocjk as well. a lot of the amtrak stuff is kept cobbled together by the hard work of employees, but it’s way past the point where it should have been replaced.
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:26 am
BART is going to replace its entire fleet and purchase 1000 cars.
Amtrak is going to replace most of its aging fleet ( currently held together by duct tape and a prayer) including locomotives, single level cars, bi level cars, and high speed trainsets,
and of course caltrain will need a new fleet of emus eventually.
As old fleets are replaced, I’d think they older equip, could be put to use on new starter lines here and there, but I understand its more likely to just be scrapped. That makes me sad. I hate to throw stuff away. Seems the old cars could be used to try out new lines like sac to redding or a coastal train. for starters, you don’t need anything fancy, just something to get from a to b.
am I the only one who wants to see a daily round trip from reno to vegas that stops and piicks up all those poor lost souls who are stranded in the middle of Nowhere, NV?
wu ming Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:42 am
not sure i care as much about the reno-las vegas line, but i hope they expand a while lot of routes ASAP. ideally it would all be with new or at least not dilapidated rolling stock, but whatever gets the system expanded i guess.
once the HSR trunk is built, a redding-sac-merced line timed to feed into the HSR schedule would be nice. and i’m still burning a candle for a ski train to tahoe that gets the assholes and their SUVs off of 80 every weekend.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:30 am
I wish they would run a ski train too. You know the trains (the ca zephyr) run right through sugar bowl under the gondola but they dont stop. You can also, if you want to ski colo. take that train to winterpark co. the train does stop right there daily. driving 80 in the winter is dreadful. getting behind a semi in driving rain snow mix, you can’t see anything, spray everywhere, forget it. you can also though, take the train to truckee (northstar ski resort, and they just re modeled and opened a brand new ritz carlton resort) daily. And skis are welcome on the train no prob.
wu ming Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 6:09 am
what would the time look like if they ran one, from the bay area to the sierras? normally driving is going to be faster just because of the winding route, but on a snowy day, with everyone bumper to bumper trying to get up the hill, i would think it’d be way more civilized taking the train up.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:13 am
currently there is a daily train that departs the eastbay at
emeryville 950am
martinez 1029am
davis 1111am
sacramento 1149am
roseville 1215pm
colfax 101pm
truckee 318pm
reno 446pm
you can take your skis on the train. arrive in truckee in time for hotel check in. there is local transit to all points and I think some resort shuttles as well.
the return is in the morning at 937am back to sac and the bay.
so its a good way to go up for the weekend ( up friday, back sunday ) or for a couple quiet mid week days. and, its usually about 46 bucks each way. yo ucan relax, have lunch in the dining car and sit in under the glass dome in the lounge and watch the view which is much nicer than the view from the freeway as the train takes a route that goes around the backside of many of the mountians that you never see, little hidden towns and spectacular american river canyon views as the train hugs the side of the cliffs on row that was carved out granite by hand, plus snow sheds and spectacular views of donner lake.
(what am I, the travel channel?)
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:20 am
ah here… shuttles
truckee-squaw valley
fun/ski train package
<a href="http://www.skialpine.com/mountain/mountain-servicestruckee-alpine meadows
multiple public agencies
Peter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:21 am
I guess you are the travel channel…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JsdVhjBrLE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4-gjgvo8-g
jimsf Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 1:08 pm
I think the german stuff is a little dull. This is the kind of ad that will appeal to californians
and this for sure will get californians on board cocktail
and of course
all of those are more appealing to californians than the german ad.
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm
If Californians decide what train to buy based on who has the best ad than we’re really screwed.
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:28 pm
*then
Dave Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:38 pm
I just think that Siemens has the advantage in California because of the plant they have in Sacramento. Although I hope we can get the Ca system composed of mostly Velaro’s, part AGV’s and mixed trainsets for test running on different levels of service from all HSR manufacturers for future consideration from operator’s of the systemem as well as riders.
Siemens so far is in the lead in the race for Ca HSR. They have shown desire to work for the Ca. contract while Alstom hasn’t said a damn thing.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:35 pm
A damn thing.
But really the manufacturers have all been talking to the CHSRA. The Authority used the AGV in some of their runtimes, and the Velaros in others.
Rolling stock selection is coming up, I’m sure we’ll hear from everyone. There are a lot of 20-acre parcels in the central valley to build an assembly plant on (and Adirondacker will no-doubt say that there is plenty of capacity at other plants around the country), Siemens’ real estate purchase doesn’t say a whole lot.
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 5:59 pm
Just to clarify, they don’t use the AGV in any videos. They use the Velaro, what looks like a TGV POS, and what looks like a 700 series Shinkansen.
Dave Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Thanks for proving me wrong, but what I meant is if you look at who is putting ads, making videos and even buying a good amount of land next to their current facility. That award goes to Siemens for showing us they give a damn. What Alstom has done is at this time is still very lazy. Anybody could type on their own website about their interest but when you search for California High speed rail you can see Siemens paid ads on High Speed Rail.
That’s what I meant.
Dave Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:27 pm
Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have the Altom AGV at the top of the list if they would show a little more commitment or at least small bits of it like Siemens has.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:39 pm
By being the only company to launch a marketing push to the public, Siemens definitely has the opportunity to get some mind share.
Quite frankly it will be good for the project to have some ads running all over the place promoting the benefits of HSR.
HSRforCali Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:25 pm
2hrs 20mins? Are they serious???
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Interesting. So Siemens is marketing directly to California…
I would venture to say that the fact that they are already saying that they want to build the trains here could give them a huge advantage in the selection process.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:08 pm
They’ve been putting ads up on some sites as well pointing to their Velaro page. I think this is just the beginning of a larger marketing push by the manufacturers.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:07 am
After reviewing pics of velaro, and I am in no way softening my full support of alstom/agv… but i think part of what I don’t like about velaro’s look is they are always painted white. I hate the color scheme and that front black curved window design. just like white cars are ugly.
can we see one in maybe midnight blue, glossy black on black, or red/gray or maybe some bright sports car yellows or oranges.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:10 am
woah…. this is the one! paint it this way!
Peter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 8:42 am
I’m not sure if flames will inspire much confidence in people not used to riding trains in the first place…
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:00 am
^lol, but still, its kinda hot. californians will be ok with it.
wu ming Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:46 am
one advantage of white or silver, given the route, is the fact that it reflects light instead of absorbing it. try driving a black car (even better, one with black vinyl seats) in the valley in august and you’ll get a sense of it.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:22 am
Im sure the trains will be air conditioned. black works in the desert here
Peter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 11:02 am
But it’s still more energy-efficient.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
its ugly thats what it is.
okay how bout this… are the trains fiberglass or steel? if they are steel, then how bout shiny steel colored…. like american airlines planes
Peter Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
Stainless steel (or unpainted aluminum) looks like shit if you don’t constantly clean it. Like American Airlines planes.
Joey Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
AA has some of the ugliest airliners in existence.
jimsf Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
and the car bodies will be insulated anyway. the outside temp won’t matter enough to even worry about it.
The French financial paper Les Echos has an article titled:
“The Saudi HSR will be Chinese”. To sum it up:
CRC (Chinese Railways) is now practically certain to build and operate the Saudi HSR (450km). The SRO (Saudi Railway Organisation) abruptly changed the bidding process at the last minute, just before President Hu Jintao’s visit.
Last year, an invitation to tender was issued and CRC, DB-Siemens and SNCF-Alstom submitted bids. The evaluation process was to rate experience higher than financial conditions. That was generally interpreted as favouring the SNCF-Alstom consortium, as it had the most experience and a spotless safety record.
Then, instead of evaluating the bids, SRO abruptly cancelled everything and asked the bidders to renew their offers. This time, the evaluation process was totally reversed, so that financial conditions had priority over experience. The new process was so blatantly tailored to suit the Chinese that the French and Germans decided to withdraw.
In spite of the obvious political implications of this deal, it shows the Chinese are now international HSR players and they will be very difficult to beat. The Europeans and Japanese will have to face competitors using their technology but selling it 50% cheaper.
Alstom and Japanese firms had perceived the danger and refused to share their latest technology. Others were less prudent, thinking the Chinese were too busy with their huge internal market to even think of exporting trains. The Saudi bid has proved them wrong.
Will CHSR be Chinese?
Maxi Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 5:40 am
If the chinese export-import bank is willing to finance the deal, they could easily give us the cheapest offer. I don’t see why not, close to a decade from now China will be building world-class stuff for sure. We just have to overcome that tendency of linking to a youtube of a chinese car crash test.
I think Alstom and Siemens AG should go in together on a joint bid to build/run/maintain California’s high speed rail system. They both have experience in building the needed infrastructure and the rolling stock. They both have money that can be invested, and for the number of trainsets California needs, the combination of Valeros and AGVs can quickly fulfill CA’s needs instead of having to wait for a longer period of time to fulfill a large order with a single company. Also, the AGV can operate with the Valero in terms of being coupled together. Lastly, does anyone know the status of Bombardier’s new Zefiro train besides it being built with a Chinese company?
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 6:18 pm
The Zefiro is an entire platform not explicitly linked to any one company or country, but yeah China is the only one using them so far. And I don’t think we’ve seen anything but renders of the 380 yet.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 7:36 pm
“I think Alstom and Siemens AG should go in together on a joint bid to build/run/maintain California’s high speed rail system.”
Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together… mass hysteria!
HSRComingSoon Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Andy, just to let you know, Siemens and Alstom actually partnered for a bid on Taiwan’s high speed rail system, only to lose out to a group using Shinkansen rolling stock and Japanese construction plans. So your “human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together…mass hysteria” comment is both stupid and needless.
YesonHSR Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:00 pm
Siemens or Alstom would be able to offer a complete package to CAHSR ..the power sytem ,train control and trainsets. I think this is where the big private funding wiil be ..as in the company chosen will finance these subsystems.. Siemens does have a plant here thou Im sure Alstom would could set one up real quick
HSRComingSoon Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:13 pm
I believe Alstom has a plant near Vallejo, but a new plant can be built pretty quickly elsewhere. I still think that a joint Alstom/Siemens venture would be best since both companies use complementary technology and systems, while the burden of building the 100+ trainsets for full operation in phase 1 most would be a major strain on one single company. Plus, if a joint venture is possible, that would not only speed up train production and abide by rules that are meant for products to be built/produced in the U.S., but it could also mean deeper pockets for private financing. The more the merrier.
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
So your “human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together…mass hysteria” comment is both stupid and needless.
The good Dr. Venkman is always needed.
Lighten up.
Andrew Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:33 pm
I think that JR Tokai would be able to serve CA’s needs better, but the only route they’ve thus far shown interest in is LA-LV, which there are no solid plans for. Go figure.
HSRforCali Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:56 pm
DesertXpress is scheduled to break-ground this year.
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 pm
They haven’t even asked for any private funding yet, and it’s unlikely they’re going to get much in this economy. Groundbreaking was scheduled for this year, but I haven’t heard any updates from them in ages.
The report due out on March 4 for the SF-SJ segment has been delayed. Read: http://www.insidebayarea.com/sanmateocountytimes/localnews/ci_14457661
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:15 pm
Awww I was looking forward to that…
YesonHSR Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:16 pm
They need to stop with this HSR ending in San Jose..it will NEVER happen the system wont work without SanFrancisco and nobody will get off a nice HSR trainset they ride Caltrain to SF..I guess they have to look at it in the study ..and should rule in out in big letters to the nimbys that its not an option!
Then again maby there trying to fire up SF and DIFI and Boxer to make sure the nimbys no that will never happen!
Joey Reply:
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:40 pm
Yeah, and that’s besides the fact that a non-SF terminus is illegal.
Andre Peretti Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 2:02 am
Transfers are ridership killers. In France, when people can’t have a one-seat ride they will either fly or drive. I don’t see why Californians would behave any differently.
i’m agnostic about who makes the rolling stock, but i think CA would do well to get as much help on earthquake-related safety design from the japanese as humanly possible. neither taiwan nor japan have had any trouble with systems during their frequent quakes, and a fair % of the CAHSR route will either be near or on active faults.
wu ming Reply:
February 24th, 2010 at 12:52 am
to clarify, i’m agnostic which company’s design makes ‘em. i care deeply that they’re made by californian workers, and hope that most of the factories are sited here in the central valley.