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	<title>Comments on: How Will HSR Get to Downtown San Diego?</title>
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	<description>California High Speed Rail support blog, spreading news and info about the high speed trains project approved by California voters in November 2008.</description>
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		<title>By: CMarquis</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69941</link>
		<dc:creator>CMarquis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69941</guid>
		<description>While I prefer the UTC/LaJolla alignment for personal reasons, it&#039;s inaccurate to suggest that the Qualcomm stadium alignment would generate fewer riders than UTC/La Jolla alignment. Both UTC and Mission Valley, where the Q is located, are zoned as high density business/residential development districts. The Q also has the advantage of having an existing trolley stop that, in addition to being in high density Mission Valley, also serves the East County cities of La Mesa, El Cajon and Santee. 

While I hope UTC will end up with a HSR station, it&#039;s where I work and is a center of Banking/Finance and biotechnology industries, the Q alignment is a reasonable alternative that should generate as much, if not more, ridership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I prefer the UTC/LaJolla alignment for personal reasons, it&#8217;s inaccurate to suggest that the Qualcomm stadium alignment would generate fewer riders than UTC/La Jolla alignment. Both UTC and Mission Valley, where the Q is located, are zoned as high density business/residential development districts. The Q also has the advantage of having an existing trolley stop that, in addition to being in high density Mission Valley, also serves the East County cities of La Mesa, El Cajon and Santee. </p>
<p>While I hope UTC will end up with a HSR station, it&#8217;s where I work and is a center of Banking/Finance and biotechnology industries, the Q alignment is a reasonable alternative that should generate as much, if not more, ridership.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobierto</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69935</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobierto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69935</guid>
		<description>I have seen this too, but I can&#039;t find where now. The new green line uses different trains, that the stations south of Old Town can&#039;t accommodate. The long-term plan is to update the stations, lengthen the green line to down town, and shorten the blue line so it ends downtown. They may also eventually change the downtown alignment so that the blue line continues past 12th &amp; Imperial past the convention center to terminate at Santa Fe, and the orange line no longer serves the convention center, but instead terminates at Americas Plaza or Santa Fe. At that point all three existing lines would terminate at the same place (Americas Plaza and Santa Fe are across the street from each other) with no overlap of service downtown (the C street corridor that the blue and orange lines share is highly congested). The district around Santa Fe is highly congested with no room to idle waiting for arriving passengers, let alone park. I am not at all convinced that Santa Fe is a better location for a HSR terminus than Lindbergh. The long-term plan is to reconfigure the airport so that arrivals/departures are along the freeway. I will keep looking for a source regarding the trolley line reconfiguration, and post it if I find it.

I agree with a prior commenter that a Lindbergh location is just about as convenient to downtown - many downtown residents would take the trolley to Santa Fe, as the station is at a far end of downtown. So what is the problem with taking the trolley two or three more stops to Lindbergh? Lindbergh probably has a slight edge over Santa Fe for people living in the rest of the urban core. For tourists and business visitors I suspect Lindbergh would be better. Frankly if there is to be a second station, Qualcomm would probably be better situated for suburban populations than University City, which is heavily congested with traffic, and not well-served by public transportation. Also the business districts around University City are very spread out, and the projected trolley line to UTC won&#039;t serve the large developments north of University City. (My company recently moved from downtown to University City, and I live near downtown, so my knowledge of this part of the city has unfortunately greatly increased lately.)

You will probably get plenty of NIMBYism for the 56 corridor though the ROW would be available there. I was surprised the 52 wasn&#039;t considered - good ROW there too, more heavily developed but frankly less affluent so possibly less likely to complain? Sorry to be a cynic there. Either the 15 or the 163 to the 8 make a lot of sense, the 163 bypasses Qualcomm but would involve less landtaking along the 8, which is going to be a problem - also the 8 follows the San Diego River, and when they built the trolley line there, there huge environmental controversies, so expect more wetlands issues if they try to build a giant train line there. The mayor wants to build a new football stadium downtown, if that were to happen, I don&#039;t know whether the Qualcomm location would be better or worse - it would be a major site for redevelopment, probably with a focus on medium-density housing, and possibly a major satellite campus of SDSU. And though I am loathe to say this, if HSR terminated at Qualcomm, it wouldn&#039;t be a crisis. It has good public transportation service, excellent freeway access, room for train parking (I don&#039;t know how they&#039;ll resolve that downtown), and room for automobile parking as well. If there were stations at Qualcomm and Lindbergh/Santa Fe, Qualcomm would be the choice of most suburban users - and remember, San Diego is mostly suburb.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen this too, but I can&#8217;t find where now. The new green line uses different trains, that the stations south of Old Town can&#8217;t accommodate. The long-term plan is to update the stations, lengthen the green line to down town, and shorten the blue line so it ends downtown. They may also eventually change the downtown alignment so that the blue line continues past 12th &amp; Imperial past the convention center to terminate at Santa Fe, and the orange line no longer serves the convention center, but instead terminates at Americas Plaza or Santa Fe. At that point all three existing lines would terminate at the same place (Americas Plaza and Santa Fe are across the street from each other) with no overlap of service downtown (the C street corridor that the blue and orange lines share is highly congested). The district around Santa Fe is highly congested with no room to idle waiting for arriving passengers, let alone park. I am not at all convinced that Santa Fe is a better location for a HSR terminus than Lindbergh. The long-term plan is to reconfigure the airport so that arrivals/departures are along the freeway. I will keep looking for a source regarding the trolley line reconfiguration, and post it if I find it.</p>
<p>I agree with a prior commenter that a Lindbergh location is just about as convenient to downtown &#8211; many downtown residents would take the trolley to Santa Fe, as the station is at a far end of downtown. So what is the problem with taking the trolley two or three more stops to Lindbergh? Lindbergh probably has a slight edge over Santa Fe for people living in the rest of the urban core. For tourists and business visitors I suspect Lindbergh would be better. Frankly if there is to be a second station, Qualcomm would probably be better situated for suburban populations than University City, which is heavily congested with traffic, and not well-served by public transportation. Also the business districts around University City are very spread out, and the projected trolley line to UTC won&#8217;t serve the large developments north of University City. (My company recently moved from downtown to University City, and I live near downtown, so my knowledge of this part of the city has unfortunately greatly increased lately.)</p>
<p>You will probably get plenty of NIMBYism for the 56 corridor though the ROW would be available there. I was surprised the 52 wasn&#8217;t considered &#8211; good ROW there too, more heavily developed but frankly less affluent so possibly less likely to complain? Sorry to be a cynic there. Either the 15 or the 163 to the 8 make a lot of sense, the 163 bypasses Qualcomm but would involve less landtaking along the 8, which is going to be a problem &#8211; also the 8 follows the San Diego River, and when they built the trolley line there, there huge environmental controversies, so expect more wetlands issues if they try to build a giant train line there. The mayor wants to build a new football stadium downtown, if that were to happen, I don&#8217;t know whether the Qualcomm location would be better or worse &#8211; it would be a major site for redevelopment, probably with a focus on medium-density housing, and possibly a major satellite campus of SDSU. And though I am loathe to say this, if HSR terminated at Qualcomm, it wouldn&#8217;t be a crisis. It has good public transportation service, excellent freeway access, room for train parking (I don&#8217;t know how they&#8217;ll resolve that downtown), and room for automobile parking as well. If there were stations at Qualcomm and Lindbergh/Santa Fe, Qualcomm would be the choice of most suburban users &#8211; and remember, San Diego is mostly suburb.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobierto</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69931</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobierto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69931</guid>
		<description>Actually the Coronado ferry does still exist, though it&#039;s not a major commuter option. The military ran a commuter boat directly to the naval air station at north island, adjoining Coronado, and that is what was shut down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually the Coronado ferry does still exist, though it&#8217;s not a major commuter option. The military ran a commuter boat directly to the naval air station at north island, adjoining Coronado, and that is what was shut down.</p>
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		<title>By: BruceMcF</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69814</link>
		<dc:creator>BruceMcF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69814</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s your source for that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s your source for that?</p>
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		<title>By: BruceMcF</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69813</link>
		<dc:creator>BruceMcF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69813</guid>
		<description>Ah, those bastards, stealing San Diego&#039;s tourist draws. Of course, the military industrial complex is a bedrock of the San Diego economy.

Still can&#039;t move the convention center.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, those bastards, stealing San Diego&#8217;s tourist draws. Of course, the military industrial complex is a bedrock of the San Diego economy.</p>
<p>Still can&#8217;t move the convention center.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69811</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 15:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69811</guid>
		<description>Yeah Santa Fe is a good choice too. haha

Anyway just so you know the Coronado Ferry no longer exists.  Sad but true, it was deemed a security threat to North Island Naval Base as one reason to shut it down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Santa Fe is a good choice too. haha</p>
<p>Anyway just so you know the Coronado Ferry no longer exists.  Sad but true, it was deemed a security threat to North Island Naval Base as one reason to shut it down.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69601</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69601</guid>
		<description>&quot;Page does not exist&quot;

Anyway, my claim of the four track sections being about a mile comes from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tillier.net/stuff/hsr/TM%202.2.4%20Directive%20Drawings%20090729.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; document, which specifies a total 6000&#039; length for the four track section (including switches).  You mention that the express train has to be at least 5 minutes behind the local.  This seems quite logical, since you would want the express to be following the local as close as possible so that the local doesn&#039;t have to wait in the station for minutes on end for the express to pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Page does not exist&#8221;</p>
<p>Anyway, my claim of the four track sections being about a mile comes from <a href="http://www.tillier.net/stuff/hsr/TM%202.2.4%20Directive%20Drawings%20090729.pdf" rel="nofollow">this</a> document, which specifies a total 6000&#8242; length for the four track section (including switches).  You mention that the express train has to be at least 5 minutes behind the local.  This seems quite logical, since you would want the express to be following the local as close as possible so that the local doesn&#8217;t have to wait in the station for minutes on end for the express to pass.</p>
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		<title>By: adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69596</link>
		<dc:creator>adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69596</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t the 5 dimensional space time generators they are going to use at Transbay to have two trains on the same track at the same time also work out in the Valley?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t the 5 dimensional space time generators they are going to use at Transbay to have two trains on the same track at the same time also work out in the Valley?</p>
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		<title>By: BruceMcF</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69575</link>
		<dc:creator>BruceMcF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69575</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure that the constraints on adding frequency on the California corridors in the first decade of operations will be the same as in Japan today.

For the linear programming optimization station skipper schedule, you get more or less what the CHSRA gets.

For regular schedules, I don&#039;t see more express SF/SJ/LA services than all-stations and limited stops services to the Bay and Sacramento combined. The SF/SJ/LA express services may be the first to get longer and then bi-level trains, but given the capacity and the benefit of frequency, I&#039;d expect whichever operator leases the run from CHSRA will have trains with Fresno and Bakersfield stops in addition to the all-stations through the CV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that the constraints on adding frequency on the California corridors in the first decade of operations will be the same as in Japan today.</p>
<p>For the linear programming optimization station skipper schedule, you get more or less what the CHSRA gets.</p>
<p>For regular schedules, I don&#8217;t see more express SF/SJ/LA services than all-stations and limited stops services to the Bay and Sacramento combined. The SF/SJ/LA express services may be the first to get longer and then bi-level trains, but given the capacity and the benefit of frequency, I&#8217;d expect whichever operator leases the run from CHSRA will have trains with Fresno and Bakersfield stops in addition to the all-stations through the CV.</p>
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		<title>By: Alon Levy</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2010/02/how-will-hsr-get-to-downtown-san-diego/comment-page-1/#comment-69547</link>
		<dc:creator>Alon Levy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2815#comment-69547</guid>
		<description>By the way: Hong Kong has no high-speed rail... when you say the urban environment there is unpleasant, are you talking about the visual impact of els? Because if the issue is visual impact then there&#039;s a far larger class of examples of downtown els (for a start, the Stadtbahn). It&#039;s the noise mitigation that requires looking at Shinkansen examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way: Hong Kong has no high-speed rail&#8230; when you say the urban environment there is unpleasant, are you talking about the visual impact of els? Because if the issue is visual impact then there&#8217;s a far larger class of examples of downtown els (for a start, the Stadtbahn). It&#8217;s the noise mitigation that requires looking at Shinkansen examples.</p>
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