February CHSRA Board Meeting Open Thread
The CHSRA monthly board meeting is happening in San Diego this month today, and apparently there’s no live feed of audio or video that I’m aware of, so we’ll have to wait to learn some of what’s happening there. In the meantime, the February agenda is here, and includes discussion of the Executive Director search, discussion of the recent federal stimulus award, and a discussion of the LA-Anaheim alternatives analysis process. There’s a powerpoint linked from the agenda PDF, but apparently not directly linked from the website, showing some of the issues at LA Union Station with the different track alignments and curvatures for the run-through tracks, as well as some schematics of a tunnel through Anaheim and the maintenance facility near ARTIC.
Wish I had more to offer you all in terms of meeting coverage, but use this as an open thread for items related to the board meeting or anything else HSR-related.
Is the meeting open to the public? If so, can you let us San Diego folks know when/where.
//dan.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:40 am
Sorry about this – my original post meant to say the meeting is happening today (right now, actually).
Been a long week.
-muni is holding town hall meetings this month too. for any of you who live here. budget- where to cut – (hello, goodbye middle management)
-amtrak has half off on companion fares right now.
-this is great news these guys are going to have great train service because not only are they getting more trains and increased speeds to 110 but they get talgo trains which are very nice. Why caltrans didnt choose the off the shelf talgos instead of our “california cars” Ill never know. They have a thing for double deckers. ( i know we will end up with tgv duplexes for hsr)
matt Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 11:57 am
Any idea when they plan to finish that? The wikipedia page says the Point Defiance bypass will be done in 2019. Is that still correct or are these grants getting that sped up?
jimsf Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:04 pm
I havent followed it that closely. but i do get daily updated from amtrak media relations
Elk Grove’s newspaper, the Elk Grove Citizen, has an article about the planning for high speed rail through that suburban Sacramento community. Here’s the link: http://www.egcitizen.com/articles/2010/02/03/news/doc4b69be442dff0749918974.txt
Aggravating, that this, of all meetings, they are not broadcasting. There oughtta be a law…
I hope they’ll be posting either an audio or video recording of the meeting, even though they’re not broadcasting live. Or a transcript…
Nadia Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
CARRD has been in touch with CHSRA today and we have been assured that today’s meeting has been taped and will be made available – but that because of the location change, they couldn’t webcast it. We have also been assured that all meetings, including sub-committee meetings going forward will be at least audio taped and made available.
In addition to the audio recordings available on the CHSRA website, you can go to http://www.carrdnet.org and click on Transcripts on the left side. We have been trying to provide written transcripts for meetings, which the Authority has NOT done to date. You’ll see in there the latest is a transcript of the Executive Committee meeting where the Conflict of Interest Code was discussed. It is a popular link.
Observer Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
Thanks Nadia. I mentioned transcript particularly because I read the conflict of interest transcript on the CARRD website last night… Fascinating stuff. And its a great service you’re doing for us. Many thanks.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Let me second the thanks for putting that info together. We may not always see eye to eye on every aspect of HSR, but you guys are doing some very good work in terms of putting up key HSR information for public consumption.
Nadia ..lets make sure that you also get the Positive things about this project posted on your web site and in your community information..something your group for some reason “forgets”.
YesonHSR – puleeze. CARRD is posting facts. I don’t see you asking Clem to be a little more positive…
Why don’t you let Robert stick to what he knows (spin), and let Nadia do her thing, which is uncovering the facts. And Clem does what he does which is an honest engineering analysis of the Peninsula HSR.
A little dose of reality check and fact checking never hurt anyone (anyone that isn’t lying their ass off anyway). Surely, you have nothing to fear from Nadia’s good work…
There is a BIG difference between those 2 websites and you know it ..AND why are they not posting postive facts? only spin as in your type of thinking….Now for the bolth of you ..hows PA on line? talk about putting a spin everthing…Its going to ruin Palo Alto!!!!
Here’s a link to an interesting article about the pace of engineering on the SF-SJ segment and the prospects of stimulus funding. http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2010/02/01/daily93.html
Interesting update on the LA-Anaheim AA. Well, nothing all that new, but a couple of interesting things. The at-grade options is still on the table but they appear to be pushing the tunnel aggressively. No real update on the LAUS alternatives front, though a few options are shown. Also, it appears that the location for the operations and maintenance facility has been chosen. It will be west of the tracks, between Ball Rd. and Cerritos Ave – perhaps 1 mile northwest of ARTIC.
There IS a big difference, and they are serving two completely different purposes. Why shouldn’t they?
Palo Alto online has its own purpose as well, which is not the same as either of the other two. PAO I’d say is the closest to Roberts – which is firing up people with a common interest, around the issues that they may care about. OPED for the masses.
Maybe if you crave MORE positive spin, you should spend more time on CHSRA website (all positive, all the time). Or join Robert’s C4HSR – a cozy little group of entirely likeminded people.
Frankly, I was going to suggest to Robert that he try a little more balanced approach himself, like questioning some of the garbage coming from the CHSRA, instead of incessently pushing the koolaid – which might just end up netting California a better HSR system in the end.
Joey Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 3:43 pm
You know, threaded comments exist for a reason. You can argue all you want, but please do it in an organized manner.
@Observer
YES..a big difference..Clems blog is about building a HSR on an active 120 year old railroad the postive and negative and how to make it work for a sensible cost. CARRD is a group that has made it very clear ..tunnel or nothing..She has been on TV..not holding back..THE MAIN NIMBYS.. So what unbaised facts are those? Speaking of a cozy little group you and CARRD and “your” koolaid is always posting some bad news ..right?
..
Nadia Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 6:28 pm
@YesonHSR – where exactly has this been made clear? On our website? In our public comments? Where are you drawing these conclusions from?
CARRD has always maintained that we don’t argue for a particular implementation – but for an open, honest and transparent process. I have NEVER said a tunnel or nothing because that is NOT what I believe. I don’t have enough information to make that determination – and that is why I have made it a point to introduce a process (CSS) by which I hope we can work collaboratively with EVERYONE and (hopefully) ensure that we get all the information necessary to decide what implementation will work best given the trade-offs. I don’t have a link to the TV clip – but if you find it – you’ll find I said that if you ask the average person on the street about HSR, they say “tunnel it” because they have no idea what the implications are of that. However, I went on to say that we need to do a better job of educating the public – which is what I have been trying to do. Robert and Observer, thanks for recognizing the work we’re doing.
@Observer
And I have joined C4HSR to make sure people that voted YES on HSR voices are heard also..not just nimbys and deniers..
Joey Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
AARGGHHH is it really that hard to click the reply button?
YesonHSR Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 5:09 pm
the reply on the header does not nest it under for some reason
Peter Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Click the reply button below, then.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Yes, the “reply” in the first comment starting a thread is for starting a new thread, with a link back to the original thread.
The reply below the comment places a reply just below the comment
The way you can tell you hit the right one is you are typing in a box at the bottom of the page starting a new thread when you are starting a new thread at the bottom of the page, and you are typing in a box right below the box you are replying to when you are typing a comment that will show up in a box right below the box you are replying to.
robert, we got a denialist diary at dKos here.
Peter Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
The HSR version of Fox News. Fair and Balanced.
transportation funding…
http://thesource.metro.net/2010/02/03/where-new-starts-dollars-are-going-in-fy-2011-hint-its-not-los-angeles-county/
Sure, cuz, they already gave california 2.3Billion….
And so it begins.
spokker Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
lol
mrcawfee Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
More likely that the projects aren’t mature enough to receive the limited new starts funding.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Your mistake was in linking to a story with a map, where it can be seen that the connection between getting HSR funds and getting New Starts funds is basically … no pattern at all. Washington got one of the larger HSR allocations and also New Starts funding, California got the biggest HSR funding and New Starts for San Francisco, Florida got Orlandp/Tampa for second largest allotment and New Starts in Orlando, Illinois and Wisconsin and Ohio in the top eight for HSR and no New Starts. The NEC received HSR funding that with its Amtrak funding brought it above $700m for intercity, and New York in the heart of the NEC far and away the biggest New Starts.
Basically: no pattern at all.
Here’s an updated article on the need to speed up engineering to maintain the federal stimulus funds: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_14336740. Also, on a personal note, I believe this is the right thing as over-examining multiple studies will obviously not only delay the project, but it also serves a tactic to try to delay, delay, postpone and kill a project. Let’s get this project moving!
So, did anyone read the latest issue of california rail news. Four full pages of high speed rail bashing. My jaw dropped. These people are out of their minds. They actually think that at this stage of the game, they are going to move everything to 1-5, skip all the cities that voted for the system. start the process of trying to get the train to cross the bay on the old rail bridge, which means going up against environmentalists and the whole slough of bay protectionists, triggering an whole new round of EIRs, christ the system will be held up for another decade. and they are totally fine with telling folks in the central valley, to just keep using the san joaquins cuz thats good enough.
Its as if reality as we know it, never happened in trac land.
There were ridiculous arguments put forth by so called rail experts. I mean jeez louise. talk about pulling stuff out of your ass.
If the only reason to build hsr is to get people from sf to la, then we don’t need it. Theres no point to building it whatsoever. If you arent going to bring hsr to the actual people who need it most. then don’t bother.
Which it appears to me, cleary, that their true motive, regardless of their claims to the contrary, is to delay or kill hsr so they can ensure the survival and reliance on the traditional choo choos.
Now as Im employed thanks to those choo choos, I certainly appreciate them but hsr is not a threat.
Their so called plan for hsr is a complete”back to the drawing board” waste of time. whats worse, they are dissemianting this misleading information as fact to train riders.
I mean they actually want to tell the people of merced and fresno etc, not only to forget about their job opportunities, and to forget about their plans for economic revival. but also that they don’t matter enough for the train to bother stopping for them. “those” people can instead, just use the slow train and be happy with it.
Not only that, they are claiming that the 2:40 cant be reached unless you go down the i-5.
completely disregarding the facts ( blatantly lying) that not all trains will make all stops.
Thats a partial list of the bs i read. I didnt bring a copy home cuz I prefer to keep the trash where it belongs. Im sure you can find the whole thing on the web somewhere though.
what a bunch of unbelievable disingenuous horsesh*t.
Looking at the trac website, you can see they are bent on preserving their own version of rail in california which always goes against hsr, and often goes against amtrak as well. This issue had a headline criticizing amtraks decision to replace its aging fleet. we are using a national fleet thats in excess of 30 years old. trainsets that have been refurbished over and over, and which have bathrooms which fail miserably on a regular basis. Plus rail car construction means jobs. now.
They didn’t bother to go into much detail in the article, they just chose to put the loud snarky headline up there implying amtraks president doesn’t know what he’s doing.
These guys need to go home and set up their toy HO scale trainsets and stick to playing with those.
HSRforCali Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 7:04 am
Is it really that hard to believe. Richard Tolmach is a complete f**k head who doesn’t think about others and is very single minded. I say lets send him to Fresno and Bakersfield and have him tell the entire city he doesn’t want HSR going through their cities. Instead he’d rather it go up the desolate I-5 corridor. I’d love to seem him tell them that.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 9:33 am
new fleet including hsr
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 11:43 am
Are they ordering more Acela trainsets or are they shopping around for other options?
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
They are getting more acela trainsets.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
“High speed sets would also begin arriving in 2012, with approximately 25 locomotives needed per year. In 2014, the railroad would acquire five additional Acela trainsets, and the existing fleet of 20 would be replaced in 2019. “
AndyDuncan Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
My question was if they’re buying the same bombardier sets they’re using now, or if they were buying something else. Since Acela is both the name of the train and the service, I figured they meant the Bombardier sets, but just wanted to make sure.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
If they’re only getting the trainsets by 2014, by which time PTC would be nearing full implementation nationwide, then why are they not getting noncompliant trains?
Peter Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 11:50 am
Speaking of new fleet, does anyone know if Florida HSR is still planning on using the JetTrain?
Joey Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:18 pm
What is it with America and refusing to electrify?
Peter Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
Don’t ask me. Guess it was cheaper for them to do it that way?
synonymouse Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 3:48 pm
You are possibly too young to remember McCarthyism. One of the cultural collaterals of that stultifying movement was the conviction that internal combustion came firectly from God. Big oil completed its conquest of American transportation. It has gotten embedded in the rr industry’s collective consciousness that electrification is “ÿurpeen” and commie. You can trot out all the economic studies you want but the problem is old line railroaders who remember dieselization. I guess tht over time that mindset will die out. Still I think you would need nationalization before electrification. freedman
Peter Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Maybe running on diesel fuel means there’s less infrastructure to repair after a hurricane?
synonymouse Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Tolmach is on target. Whitman has a chance of winning and I have to assume she would call for a complete outside audit of the CHSRA plan.
Peter Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 10:58 am
She’s not going to win if it turns out her staff has in fact been threatening Poizner.
synonymouse Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 11:14 am
The election’s Jerry Brown’s to lose. It looks like he doesn’t even want the job that much. Does he even have a position on the CHSRA scheme.
Don’t like Whitman, like ebay even less, but Whitman has so much money she might not be intimidated by Bechtel or public employee unions.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
First, the unions will get the vote out, second, after “outisder zillionaire” Arnold’s horrible performance californians are in no mood to elect another one of those.
People want someone who knows what it takes to get things done. Not one of whitmans’ ideas would succeed or even have a chance of getting past the legislature. And finally, californians WANT high speed rail.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Whitman doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
That’s what everyone said about Scott Brown until two weeks before the election.
Nearly half the people vote Republican. There’s no way around this. Sometimes, they’ll get a majority.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
And even if she did win, she wouldn’t be given an inch of wiggle room to do anything. No, Californians have consistently said no to “outsider I owe no one” millionaires. Arnold was the “scott brown” exception already and he only won because of people in the central valley were starstruck.
and synonomouse, there isnt going to be an i-5 route. and the governor, any governor, doesn’t have the authority to change the route anyway.
synonymouse Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
Whitman doesn’t look like the type of stone egomaniac who would blow her own dough on a hopeless campaign. Remember the slow motion coup d’etat ousting Grey Davis.
Downstate Republican stalwarts and teabaggers will insist Whitman audit CHSRA profitability.
Now is the time to layout an I-5-Grapevine starter alternative. Flame on, Palmdale foamers.
spokker Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:35 pm
When she lowers taxes on businesses I wonder how we’re going to pay for the infrastructure (transportation, education) that actually encourages those businesses to stay here.
If she’s running her entire campaign mostly on stopping jobs from leaving California for Nevada, her entire campaign is based mostly on a flawed and overblown assumption. The Public Policy Institute of California 11,000 jobs moved out of California out of 18 million. That’s less than a percent. Business births, deaths, contractions, and expansions have a much greater effect on employment, they said.
And then a bunch of former California business owners come to the rescue and talk about how “I RAN A DEALERSHIP BUT GODDAMN THIS CALIFORNIA IS KICKING MY ASS BECAUSE I AM A FUCKING IDIOT SO I FIRED ALL OF MY EMPLOYEES AND MOVED TO WISCONSIN.”
spokker Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:38 pm
I think all of these businesses should move their operations to a third world country so they won’t have to pay their employees anything, care about the environment, or even refrain from caning their employees if they do wrong.
I mean, those are the ultimate savings right there. Some businesses move just because they want to pollute more. Well, see ya.
Alon Levy Reply:
February 6th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Or they can just convert the US into a third world country. It’s easier and they can keep living in the same gated communities they know and love.
Peter Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Flame out, Altamont and/or Grapevine cultists.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Whitman would be completely unable to work with the state legislature to get anything done. Her term would a be another failure. Cali works when you get someone in there who knows how to navigate sacramento. Go in trying to “blow up boxes” and you’ll be handed your ass in a said box. No you know who we really need, willie brown. now there is someone who knows how to get things done.
Speaking of tbt, I just wrote to Senator Feinstein concerning Kopp and his shenanigans and I eagerly await a response.
BruceMcF Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
I hope you included something about the TJPA trying to palm off a half assed effort at a screwed design on the people of San Francisco and all Californians who may end up using the station.
jimsf Reply:
February 5th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
That wasn’t exactly the gist of my letter, no. Nor the one to the Mayor.
Palo Altans to get sneak peek at high-speed rail designs
Observer Reply:
February 6th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Interestng that they’re providing design alternatives when they don’t even have an environemental impact report or a preferred alignment (both of which were rescinded in December).
The ridership models we hear now were sketchy, looks like they cooked the Pacheco versus Altamont numbers, they ignored their own updated versions, they switched models for different data presentations without dislcosing the updating info, and some other INTEGRITY issues which means it doesn’t look like a new Program EIR is a simple matter of cut and paste from their old version (as many proponents insist).. Their previous supporting data for the EIR is pretty much trash.. And that means the preferred route is not a given.
(Robert says he doesnt think CARRDs findings are all that important because the end numbers seem kinda about right. Robert doesn’t realize that the lack of auditability of the process call in to question the integrity of the end result, (not to mention the integrity of the CHSRA), which will result in a redo (best case).
If the CHSRA at this point tries to certify a new EIR based on this ridership data – they’re just BEGGING for lawsuits. Not to mention the fact that politicians like Presidents, and Senators and Governors, kinda tend to look unfavorably on ameteurish CHEATERS that might bring their political careers down too. There’s just a tad bit of high visibility cash on the line for CHSRA.
Think they’re jumping the gun just a tad here on their design alternatives presentation…
Joey Reply:
February 6th, 2010 at 11:04 am
*shrug*
Lawsuits will happen one way or another. It’s part of the process for such a big project, but in the end they probably won’t affect whether or not it gets built. By the way, why can’t you just let this whole Altamont vs Pacheco thing DIE? I would have been fine with either, but the decision was made more than a year ago (even before 1A was passed), and it seems like the only people who are still beating this dead horse are skeptics, deniers, and peninsula NIMBYs. Can we maybe choose some more current issues to discuss?