Updates on SoCal to Vegas HSR

Jan 15th, 2010 | Posted by

The Las Vegas Sun today took a look at three passenger rail projects in their region and discovered that maglev is stalled, DesertXpress is moving forward, and the Vegas monorail is having woes that are rather appropriate to the current California HSR discussion.

DesertXpress: Tom Stone, president of DesertXpress, plans to break ground sometime in 2010 on a train to link Victorville to downtown Las Vegas. DesertXpress is enthusiastic about CHRSA plans for the LA-Bakersfield segment that make a Palmdale-Victorville link viable:

The other big news for DesertXpress is that representatives of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, seeing the opportunity of connecting the Las Vegas-Victorville link with that state’s planned rail system, are seeking stimulus money for links for Palmdale, Calif., Los Angeles and Anaheim. The logical next step would be to work on a track between Victorville and Palmdale, a process that could take years since it would require an environmental assessment.

But because the California group is pressing ahead on the Palmdale link, there’s optimism that there would be a coordinated effort to speed up a Victorville-Palmdale route.

Still unclear is the source of funding for DesertXpress, which intends to get its construction capital from the private sector.

Maglev: Whereas DesertXpress appears to be “on track,” the vague plans to build maglev from Anaheim to Vegas are facing a bureaucratic hurdle that shows no sign of resolution:

Last July, the Federal Railroad Administration approved the Nevada Transportation Department’s scope of work for the use of $45 million authorized by the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users legislation. Cummings said required matching funds have been committed by American Magline Group and the money would be used to obtain environmental approvals, raise construction spending and begin work on the Las Vegas-Primm segment.

The state Transportation Department is awaiting the issuance of a contract by the Railroad Administration, and in August Administrator Joseph Szabo wrote a letter to Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, a key member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, indicating that the contract would be issued “very soon.”…

The Transportation Department and Cummings haven’t heard anything from the Railroad Administration since.

Although the explanation for the delay is unclear, Senator Harry Reid switched his support last June from maglev to DesertXpress. There’s no evidence that Reid is holding up the maglev contract, but neither is there any evidence Reid is working to release it. I’m OK if this contract is never bid – maglev is worth studying, but there’s no need to proceed with any actual plans, and construction of Anaheim-Vegas maglev remains far in the distance.

Monorail: Finally, the article talked about the Vegas monorail, which might not seem relevant to California HSR – until you read what the article has to say about the monorail’s financial situation:

The only good news about the monorail is that it makes enough money to pay for all its operational expenses. But the bad news is that it can’t pay the debts on the money borrowed to build the 3.9-mile system. That point was driven home Jan. 13 when the monorail company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection to reorganize its finances.

This is similar to Taiwan, where HSR has no problem covering its operating expenses, but is having significant problems paying back the cost of construction. Further, the Vegas monorail is complicated by poor route choices made to satisfy NIMBYs – which included the all-powerful casinos:

The only good news about the monorail is that it makes enough money to pay for all its operational expenses. But the bad news is that it can’t pay the debts on the money borrowed to build the 3.9-mile system. That point was driven home Jan. 13 when the monorail company filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection to reorganize its finances….

Monorail spokeswoman Ingrid Reisman said the focus of the monorail is to operate the system as efficiently and as effectively as it can. That doesn’t include any kind of plan to extend the monorail to McCarran International Airport, which, most critics agree, would make the system far more functional and possibly build enough ridership to make the debt payments.

But for now, survival is the objective, not growth, and construction isn’t in the cards. That’s unfortunate, since I have long maintained the reason the Las Vegas Monorail isn’t successful is because it’s a transportation system that isn’t finished yet. The airport link is the crucial piece that isn’t in place….

People complain the monorail route is along the back side of the properties on the east side of the Strip; Broadbent was hoping to route it down the center of the Strip, but met resistance from casino companies. Critics also complain the monorail doesn’t go to the airport or downtown; Broadbent wanted the train to go to both places but didn’t have the financial support to pull it off.

Compromise molded the monorail route to what it is today. Now, Las Vegas is living with that compromise.

What does this mean for California HSR? I think it’s pretty clear. For the system to be financially viable, we have to build the route that was promised to voters in November 2008 – SF Transbay Terminal to LA Union Station and Anaheim RTIC via the Caltrain corridor, and the downtowns of Gilroy, Merced, Fresno, and Bakersfield. We need to resist the temptation to make “compromises” in the route in order to mollify this or that NIMBY group or because of funding shortfalls. If we don’t have the funding to build it out completely, then we need to go out and get it, without hocking the system to private investors the way Taiwan did.

Those who argue for implementations that compromise the planned and promised route are the ones putting the project in financial jeopardy, and it’s therefore up to them to find the funding for their pet route or tunnel or station design.

  1. AndyDuncan
    Jan 15th, 2010 at 17:22
    #1

    “The other big news for DesertXpress is that representatives of the California High-Speed Rail Authority, seeing the opportunity of connecting the Las Vegas-Victorville link with that state’s planned rail system, are seeking stimulus money for links for Palmdale, Calif., Los Angeles and Anaheim. The logical next step would be to work on a track between Victorville and Palmdale, a process that could take years since it would require an environmental assessment.

    But because the California group is pressing ahead on the Palmdale link, there’s optimism that there would be a coordinated effort to speed up a Victorville-Palmdale route.”

    The way that’s worded makes it sound like CHSRA is seeking funding for the palmdale-victorville DX connection when they’re only seeking funding for the Palmdale-LAUS-Anaheim link. So basically no new news here.

  2. jimsf
    Jan 15th, 2010 at 18:37
    #2

    and here we go againWe want high-speed rail,” she said. “But we want it somewhere else

    Peter Reply:

    That’s the solution everywhere. Then we can build it … nowhere?

  3. Joey
    Jan 15th, 2010 at 21:22
    #3

    I’m really confused about how DesertXpress intends to pay for its construction costs when it doesn’t even connect to anything significant.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    It connects to Las Vegas. The Victorville end isn’t the greatest but there’s Las Vegas at the other end.

    aaron Reply:

    A rail line with one destination is like an airplane that takes off and lands at the same airport.

    I’m not opposed to LV-LA HSR, but LV-Nowhere HSR is a terrible idea. But, so long as it’s a privately idea, well, good luck and G-dspeed. I’ve always assumed that at the end of the day that Desert Xpress

    aaron Reply:

    Wow, way to submit a half-written comment.

    Let’s try that again

    A rail line with one destination is like an airplane that takes off and lands at the same airport.

    I’m not opposed to LV-LA HSR, but LV-Nowhere HSR is a terrible idea. But, so long as it’s a privately funded idea, well, good luck and G-dspeed. I’ve always assumed that at the end of the day that Desert Xpress is just going to be an extension to CAHSR.

    Greg Reply:

    The future for DesertXpress seems to likely be one where they build the line, determine that while operational profitable they can’t service their debts, therefore they sell the line to whomever is the operator of CAHSR, and LA-Las Vegas becomes a branch of the CAHSR system. Perhaps that is what the investors are counting on – that the line will be bought up and they will be paid out within 5-8 years by the government.

    BruceMcF Reply:

    But it’d be cheaper for the government to buy them out after they go bankrupt than before.

    Brandon from San Diego Reply:

    re half-written comment…. I thought that was the point – just like the Desert Express line to…

    Miguel Reply:

    Good point. the hsr trains, vegas trains, & any other agency can use the rails.
    ha! transit options are my biggest concern. we need options.it may not lead anywhere now, but it will.

    Miguel Reply:

    the point is to build the starter line which will have so many options there after (direct san bernardino, san diego, etc)
    the web side describes the Victorville station as a huge parking space (valet situation)
    where the hotel experience starts the moment you pull up.
    if I had a choice between the harsh drive over (way dangerous, a drag, and no drinking wtf! :})
    and back (possibly hung over), or an alternative. . . I’d opt for the alternative, & I know I’m not alone on that one.
    I’d drive to victorville from simi valley for that & probably go more often. I read somewhere the price was about 200$ per ticket (dont quote i’m not sure) a lot most would say right? well a 200$ ticket compared the risks of driving one of which is life (something I find priceless) is way worth it.
    The people that would never ride this need to think of it this way: OTHER people will take this new rail line, and it’ll get those people off the road, that way you can drive in less traffic. Its a win, win I think you save time & gas! public and private transit should worth with each other not against. Its like rival high schools. . . really. . . sad.

    this is the way any transit project should be seen. I think its ridiculous that people say (i’m paying for it but I don’t ride it) well um. . . ., think outside of your personal bubble for like 2.45 seconds here. . . How how can this INDIRECTLY affect you (I know its hard for the average MTV, Reality show loving American) but seriously though be real.

    have you guys ever seen someone make a mistake but their ego is sky high (or interstate long) & they like don’t want to admit they’re wrong? They then, after messing up, keep doing whatever it is they’re doing in hopes that eventually they’re right and the situation changes but instead they make more of a fool of themselves every second that goes by? haha yea, we’ve all seen that guy (and if you haven’t, your that guy) well my fellow Americans, our country is “that guy” in terms of transportation; we should fix that. . . .
    If you don’t get it, think about it on your 3 hour commute from work tomorrow ;)

    Make the right choice guys, lets build it. I agree with “no compromises”

    Miguel Ojeda
    Simi Valley, Ca
    miguelsexyiphone@gmail.com

  4. Rafael
    Jan 16th, 2010 at 10:21
    #4

    The Las Vegas monorail is a strictly local transit system. If it manages to cover operating expenses, that’s actually fairly amazing – most similar systems require an operating subsidy.

    No public transportation system in the world is able to cover the capital costs of its starter line. Even the most profitable one, the Tokaido shinkansen between Tokyo and shin-Osaka, was paid for in part with taxpayer funds.

    None of this is surprising, given that the alternatives, i.e. roads and airports, are also taxpayer subsidized. There is no tax on kerosene anywhere in the world.

    spokker Reply:

    I have no idea how they cover operating costs. The Las Vegas Monorail is really the worst transportation system I have ever seen, and I’ve been on VTA Light Rail.

    Joey Reply:

    Agreed. It’s slow, doesn’t go to many places of interest, and can only be accessed through labarynth-like casinos that make it impossible to find your way around. Honestly it might be faster to walk to your destination.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    only be accessed through labyrinth-like casinos

    That’s the point, to get you to walk through the casinos.

    Peter Reply:

    Then the casinos should bail it out and pay to expand it to the airport, as well as to DesertXpress.

    Walter Reply:

    This just makes me feel like if DX if built, the pieces will fall in place. Once CHSR is built, it would be ridiculous NOT to connect the lines. It will be similarly ridiculous to not build a Monorail connect to DX. With these two connections, it will be possible to get from a train station in California to a resort in Vegas fairly painlessly. Let’s hope DX’s private investors see the potential in the route when it is connected to CHSR and Monorail.

    spokker Reply:

    That it would be ridiculous not to build a connection is not in itself a great motivator to get the connection built. See the failure of transit planners in Los Angeles to extend the Green Line a few measly miles to LAX and the Norwalk Metrolink Station.

  5. Laurence E. Blow
    Jan 16th, 2010 at 11:02
    #5

    What an endorsement: “…maglev is worth studying, but there’s no need to proceed with any actual plans…”

    Maglev has been studied in the U.S. since the mid-1980s, about the time the Germans and Japanese were building their initial testing facilities. Now the German Transrapid has accumulated almost seven years’ commercial service experience in Shanghai and the Japanese are preparing to introduce their high-speed maglev in country in 2025 and are scouting for opportunities in the U.S.

    The timing’s getting better, so why not proceed with plans for installing a maglev somewhere in the USA?

    Peter Reply:

    Well, once you find a way to install it in a cost-effective manner, then we can build it.

    The only reason it was built in China was for a prestige project. They didn’t exactly care how much it cost.

    The only other commercial project, the M-Bahn in Berlin, was dismantled because it was less effective than the U-Bahn in its location. It was never set up again because it was too expensive.

    Every application of Transrapid was stopped because it was too expensive. Except for China, where the pricetag didn’t matter.

    dejv Reply:

    > The only other commercial project, the M-Bahn in Berlin, was dismantled because it was less effective than the U-Bahn in its location.

    That’s not completely true. M-Bahn was given a segment of U2 ROW in 1980′s with condition that if Berlin should reunite, M-Bahn would give way to U2 reestablishment. The maglev that was dismantled and never set up again because of effectiveness was in Birmingham.

    Peter Reply:

    No, Birmingham’s maglev was dismantled because it was obsolete and they couldn’t get the electronics for it anymore. It was replaced by a cable-pulled system. How’s that for irony: outdated maglev replaced by cable car.

    Berlin’s M-Bahn was going to be set up again as a shuttle at Schoenefeld between the train station and the airline terminal. There’s a pretty long walk there if you have baggage. It turned out to be too expensive to set the infrastructure back up there.

    I know the M-Bahn used U2 ROW. I doubt though that there was the condition that it would be dismantled if Berlin reunited. Reunification was just seen as much too unlikely.

    HSRforCali Reply:

    After you read this, you’ll see why maglev is a bad idea: http://www.victorvillecity.com/documents/bslreport.pdf

    Alon Levy Reply:

    Maglev somewhere in the US might be a good idea. Maglev on a branch line that’s entirely useless without the mainline is not.

    adirondacker12800 Reply:

    Where? There’s not many places that have the traffic density to justify the costs of the track. The places that have the traffic density to justify the costs of the track don’t have anyplace cheap to put the tracks.

  6. spokker
    Jan 16th, 2010 at 17:26
    #6

    Diridon should endorse maglev to San Jose.

    Peter Reply:

    Instead of BART to San Jose.

    Alon Levy Reply:

    You know, there are low-speed maglev lines around – Osaka has one functioning as commuter rail. Arguably the best route to convert to maglev in the US is BART, which runs on a different gauge and thus loses the compatibility advantage of conventional rail. There may be less vendor lock than with the current BART system because there are already vendors in Japan. After just taking BART across the Bay and nearly going deaf from the noise within the Transbay Tube, I think anything that would reduce the total amount of noise would help. (Maglev, recall, is quieter than conventional rail at any given speed.)

    dejv Reply:

    There are cheaper ways to reduce noise and vibration than maglev conversion, like using state-of-the-art fastening systems (123) and rail web dampers.

    (This is also reply to synonymouse’s numerous “Bart is noisy so any rail is noisy” remarks.)

    synonymouse Reply:

    BART is noisy because it was designed to be that way by Bechtel. They refuse to use resilient wheels because they worry they are not safe. BART has constructed many extremely expensive extensions in recent years and it has declined to use the fasteners and dampeners you recommend. You would have to ask BART why, but I suspect their engineers deem them unsafe as well. The innovations you endorse probably require a higher level of attention and maintenance than BART wants or feels that it can afford. AFAIK BART uses a flat profile rather than a tapered wheel. It could be that BART believes that more resiliency could produce more out of gauge problems and derailments.

    BART has a totally cavalier attitude toward noise, a tack which the hsr crowd seems to taking up as well.

    dejv Reply:

    Those double-baseplate systems and Vanguard are expensive. The’re suitable only in places where the noise has nowhere to dissipate and it cannot be deflected to where it wouln’t harm anything – for example in tunnels. For at grade or elevated tracks are sufficient simpler systems. BART has already discovered one of such fastenings – you may ask its officials why they didn’t adopt it widely. And of course why they don’t use sound-proof walls like Japanese do.

    Peter Reply:

    That would be a pretty funny replacement for BART.

    I’m curious, just for s**ts and giggles, how much such a maglev conversion would cost.

    AndyDuncan Reply:

    The LA Metro red line is quiet and smooth. BART’s noise issues aren’t the fault of the technology, it’s the fault of the operator.

    jimsf Reply:

    LA red line seems to have a different type of tunnel lining that is less noisy than the the bart tunnels.

  7. Emma
    Jan 17th, 2010 at 22:52
    #7

    Oh no. Please don’t try Maglev. We don’t even have a full catenary system and politicians are already proposing maglev? It will be too expensive. Coming from North-Rhine Westphalia, Germany I know that it cannot beat conventional rail. We tried it with the Metrorapid but it failed and in the end we distributed the money to upgrade the current local railways:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/9/92/Metrorapid01.jpg

    Did they even consider to just copy the technology of California High Speed Rail and then apply it to their Las Vegas-SoCal track? That would save a lot of research = money.

    Peter Reply:

    Yes, they will be implementing conventional steel/steel tracks for Desert Xpress. Desert Xpress did not plan for CAHSR to move forward. Hopefully they will in fact implement compatible (and integrated) systems.

  8. synonymouse
    Jan 18th, 2010 at 13:36
    #8

    Question: if Vegas cannot afford a simple Amtrak train how can it afford to build and operate the Desert Xpress?

    Peter Reply:

    Vegas doesn’t pay for the train.

    Amtrak stopped running Desert Wind and replaced it with bus service because of budget cuts. Also, if I recall correctly, UPRR was making life difficult for Amtrak on that route (among many others) and trains were being delayed dramatically. This is because they had to share tracks with freight. I’m guessing that that route is also single-tracked, which would lead to even greater capacity problems and delays.

    Peter Reply:

    And Desert Xpress would not have any of those problems, as they would be operating on their own ROW. They will be especially successful if they link up to CAHSR at Palmdale.

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