January CHSRA Board Meeting Open Thread
Sorry for putting this up so late. You can watch it live here and view the agenda here.
One thing we’ve already heard is that the board is going to hire a CEO “with experience delivering large public projects” according to the CHSRA on Twitter. Paging Bob Doty? Or is there someone else out there that you all think we should recommend to the board?
A damning analysis of high speed rail on the Peninsula from Clem: http://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2010/01/tao-of-timetables.html
After reading this I am more inclined to oppose high speed rail on the Peninsula. Even if they are opposing it for the wrong reasons, the opposition on the Peninsula’s opposition is probably the correct route.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Wow, I didn’t get that at all from Clem’s post.
Instead he’s saying that sensible scheduling that is done in a way that the public can easily understand and remember would be an even bigger selling point than the EMUs and grade separations that enable Caltrain to have that improved schedule and service.
HSR comes into the picture since its schedule will necessarily affect Caltrain’s. If HSR just does whatever it wants without regard to Caltrain’s needs, then there will be a hugely missed opportunity – but it doesn’t necessarily mean ruin for either HSR or Caltrain.
So I didn’t read that post and come away saying “wow, HSR sucks.” After all, without HSR, Caltrain won’t be able to make ANY of those improvements, since HSR is paying for the grade separation and the electrification. Caltrain can’t pay for the grade separation on its own, and the neighbors will flip out at the idea of overhead catenaries even at grade. Caltrain needs HSR.
But Caltrain also needs HSR to play nicely. And I fully agree that HSR’s schedule should complement, not screw, Caltrain’s.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
THey have no choice but to play nicely and do it all the time. Putting two trains in the same place at the same time is not possible in a three dimensional universe and if you attempt it really really ugly things happen.
Agenda Item 8 has information on new alternatives for LAUS that the authority is including in their draft EIR/EIS for the La-Anaheim segment. Mostly they involve putting the station in a subobtimal location to avoid taking some buildings, while seemingly taking more, but just different buildings.
spokker Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Any alternative that isn’t at the current Union Station is a bad one.
02uKf3DS6hfgZvhiTaTNyRp2D3cFPb
O97RfBfTa20P8YS-v_YMhQKlZPm87s
0GwXCAo6oT0JzZDvG27SuI2z6lqS2g
A8r0TGal3nveB71EkJ8-gpqLdaM4V1
k2QNhj8kH5aoABSoqyzu_jKkY8i3Al
maMdnf0B
Joey Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 5:29 pm
Even more gibberish than usual, I see…
San Francisco is to San Jose as San Diego is to LA. The has can live without it for the time being. Put the Peninsula on hold for now; it may decide to go for BART ringing the Bay if PA and others can get the subway they want.
Joey Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
I don’t think that comparison really works. San Francisco happens to be a major destination for tourists, a center of business, and a transit hub for destinations in the North and East Bay, with multiple bus, BART, ferry, and other transit lines coming in from all over. To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if when it opens, San Francisco as a station has one of the highest riderships in the system (second only to LAUS). Terminating at San José would eliminate the single seat ride to a major destination, not to mention putting ridiculous amounts of strain on the CalTrain system (and BART-around-the-bay wouldn’t do much better).
Alon Levy Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Well, apart from the fact that San Francisco has more jobs than San Jose, more inbound business travelers, and a larger suburban catchment area, I guess it is kind of like San Diego.
But I’m not sure I’m counting right. I’m counting all residents – including those pesky Chinese people you seem to want deported. I’m pretty sure that if you only count white people then SJ is bigger.
spokker Reply:
January 7th, 2010 at 10:54 pm
Bay Area transit advocates don’t want BART either.
@synonymouse
In what world are BART and HSR equivalent? That’s like saying that somebody might give up a Tesla if they can get a ’71 VW bus instead.
I just went to San Deigo. San Francisco couldn’t possibly be more different. There is no comparison.
and figuring out a schedule that works for locals, limiteds and hsr on the peninsula is not brain surgery.
There’s nothing wrong and nothing to freak out about.
Hsr will get built. It will look pretty close to what the lines on the map show. There will many things about it that will freak out the purists and they will be forever bitter. ( just like we still have to listen to people bitch about bart, endlessly, meanwhile bart chugs along serving hundreds of thousands of people everyday, not to mention being the main solution for big events, and disaster)
Things on all fronts are going to move along just as they always do. There aren’t any big surprises or revelations and again to be right up front, both the purists and the deniers are going to b disappointed to some extent so just prepare yourselves now.
In the end the systems, all of them will do a decent job of getting a lot of people to where they want to go in an acceptable way for a decent price. Thats all youre getting okay?
If you want to throw out the baby with bath water just because things dont meet some personal high expectation then you aren’t cut out for living in a democracy like america.
Im going to enjoy the train just fine so long as I can board at a nearby station, have a fast comfortable ride to my destination, and pay a reasonable fare.
In the end thats what will matter to the vast majority of californians. There will be 5 or 10 bloggers here and there who will, moan in perpetuity about how things should have be done their way but thats to be expected.
relax.
lyqwyd Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
jim, would you prefer a better or a worse system? Although I agree that the plan as described now is good enough, I’d rather push for the optimal plan. If nothing changes in the plan I’ll still happily be riding HSR, but I’ll be slightly irritated for a few moments at the loud wheel squeal in the too tight curves, much like I’m slightly irritated by wheel squeal when riding BART. I’ll be very irritated 20 years after HSR is finished when they realize we can’t fit enough trains in the Transbay center and have to spend another billion or two on fixing that, or we are stuck with poor service.
Now is the time when there is the possibility of fixing obvious errors at little to no cost. After it’s built any fixes will be quite expensive and a PITA for all riders.
heavier cars not lighter cars per FRA?
AndyDuncan Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Yet another reason that designing for a mixed-traffic system as has been proposed on here and elsewhere, is a risky endeavor when you have to rely on the FRA. Call it “cost maximization” or call it “risk mitigation”, whatever you want.
Robert Cruickshank Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
That doesn’t say anything about HSR, though I wonder what this means for Caltrain’s efforts to pursue an FRA exemption.
Peter Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:12 pm
Probably nothing. An exemption is an exemption. Have they actually filed for an exemption?
Joey Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
All the more reason to go non-compliant.
I think that article referred to commuter rail so it might apply to caltrain. I think hsr is going to have to be fully separated from caltrain. two tracks for each, no mixing, two separate independent operations. caltrain on caltrain tracks on caltrain skeds, hsr on hsr tracks on hsr skeds. maybe that means FFSS or something. who knows./
Peter Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Well, I guess we should wait and see what the rule actually says.
Joey Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
CalTrain will eventually switch to light, non-compliant EMUs anyway. The question is what is going to happen in the transition period while CalTrain slowly acquires new rolling stock and is forced to mix new trains with old ones.
jimsf Reply:
January 8th, 2010 at 8:39 pm
The suspense is killing us.