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	<title>Comments on: Palo Alto Reacts to 2009 Business Plan</title>
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	<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan</link>
	<description>California High Speed Rail support blog, spreading news and info about the high speed trains project approved by California voters in November 2008.</description>
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		<title>By: Rafael</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43192</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43192</guid>
		<description>Eurostar claim to have licked the problem of powder (as opposed to wet) snow with new snow shields on the intakes for cooling air. Curiously, I&#039;ve seen reports the rear locomotive was more affected than the one in the front.

In any case, the problem in this particular case appears to have been a combination of cold temperatures and accumulated powder snow. Afaik, Eurostar trains are based on air-cooled asynchronous electric motors, the power electronics and transformers are probably cooled via a water or oil circuit and radiators. Not sure about that, though. Either way, the systems are presumably fully sealed to prevent rain or melt water from ever making contact with the live components. Rapidly melting snow could cause mechanical damage as blocks of it fall off at 100mph. It&#039;s not clear if a previously inactive (i.e. cold) traction system was switched on as the trains entered the tunnel.

In addition, there are batteries on board for ride-through and hotel loads. If the terminals on those were cold when the trains entered the tunnel, it&#039;s possible the high humidity there caused condensation to form, shorting out the subsystem and possibly, the entire train and OCS.

In any event, the only way to get a handle on these gremlins is to test the system under controlled conditions, i.e. in a climatic wind tunnel. That&#039;s not something Eurostar can do ad-hoc, though.

Their biggest failure by far has been grossly inadequate preparation for efficiently informing, supplying and then evacuating thousands stranded passengers in the event of a breakdown inside the tunnel. Ensuring adequate reliability engineering and disaster recovery planning happens is the responsibility of senior management, pure and simple. Operations staff clearly didn&#039;t know what to do. If you&#039;re going to run trains at 15 minute intervals during the Christmas period, you need to anticipate that you&#039;re going to have 4-6 trains in the two tunnel tubes at the same time. It didn&#039;t help that all communication between management and drivers had to go through Eurotunnel while the trains were stuck, but mostly it appears to have been a case of Eurostar simply not having its own ducks in a row.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eurostar claim to have licked the problem of powder (as opposed to wet) snow with new snow shields on the intakes for cooling air. Curiously, I&#8217;ve seen reports the rear locomotive was more affected than the one in the front.</p>
<p>In any case, the problem in this particular case appears to have been a combination of cold temperatures and accumulated powder snow. Afaik, Eurostar trains are based on air-cooled asynchronous electric motors, the power electronics and transformers are probably cooled via a water or oil circuit and radiators. Not sure about that, though. Either way, the systems are presumably fully sealed to prevent rain or melt water from ever making contact with the live components. Rapidly melting snow could cause mechanical damage as blocks of it fall off at 100mph. It&#8217;s not clear if a previously inactive (i.e. cold) traction system was switched on as the trains entered the tunnel.</p>
<p>In addition, there are batteries on board for ride-through and hotel loads. If the terminals on those were cold when the trains entered the tunnel, it&#8217;s possible the high humidity there caused condensation to form, shorting out the subsystem and possibly, the entire train and OCS.</p>
<p>In any event, the only way to get a handle on these gremlins is to test the system under controlled conditions, i.e. in a climatic wind tunnel. That&#8217;s not something Eurostar can do ad-hoc, though.</p>
<p>Their biggest failure by far has been grossly inadequate preparation for efficiently informing, supplying and then evacuating thousands stranded passengers in the event of a breakdown inside the tunnel. Ensuring adequate reliability engineering and disaster recovery planning happens is the responsibility of senior management, pure and simple. Operations staff clearly didn&#8217;t know what to do. If you&#8217;re going to run trains at 15 minute intervals during the Christmas period, you need to anticipate that you&#8217;re going to have 4-6 trains in the two tunnel tubes at the same time. It didn&#8217;t help that all communication between management and drivers had to go through Eurotunnel while the trains were stuck, but mostly it appears to have been a case of Eurostar simply not having its own ducks in a row.</p>
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		<title>By: Spokker</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43182</link>
		<dc:creator>Spokker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43182</guid>
		<description>Private companies do it better. I was once stuck for two hours on a Disneyland ride. Hooray!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Private companies do it better. I was once stuck for two hours on a Disneyland ride. Hooray!</p>
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		<title>By: jimsf</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43176</link>
		<dc:creator>jimsf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43176</guid>
		<description>or better,  after hsr overlay,   &lt;a href=&quot;http://lh6.ggpht.com/_EJHLmXOyIRY/Sy_pAb2xEfI/AAAAAAAAAoY/Iq7gfzZOHe8/s640/RAILMAP.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see&lt;/a&gt;    there isn&#039;t a populated part of the state you can&#039;t get to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>or better,  after hsr overlay,   <a href="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_EJHLmXOyIRY/Sy_pAb2xEfI/AAAAAAAAAoY/Iq7gfzZOHe8/s640/RAILMAP.jpg" rel="nofollow">see</a>    there isn&#8217;t a populated part of the state you can&#8217;t get to.</p>
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		<title>By: jimsf</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43175</link>
		<dc:creator>jimsf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43175</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://149.136.20.80/rail/amtrak/assets/File/AmCal_System_Map_0910.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;see?&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://149.136.20.80/rail/amtrak/assets/File/AmCal_System_Map_0910.pdf" rel="nofollow">see?</a></p>
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		<title>By: jimsf</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43173</link>
		<dc:creator>jimsf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43173</guid>
		<description>My story doesn&#039;t presume anything.  we already have a rail system that goes everywhere I want to go.  I just want it to go to those places faster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My story doesn&#8217;t presume anything.  we already have a rail system that goes everywhere I want to go.  I just want it to go to those places faster.</p>
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		<title>By: adirondacker12800</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43149</link>
		<dc:creator>adirondacker12800</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43149</guid>
		<description>Was it a power failure? Or did the trains short out, tripping their main circuit breakers? If the electronics in the drive system have shorted out having a battery with you means the main circuit breaker to the battery will trip just like the one connected to the catenary did. 

They did think about it. a vanishingly small percentage of their annual ridership was &lt;em&gt;inconvenienced&lt;/em&gt; by the extraodinarily rare break down. Transferring some of the passengers to another train and using rescue locomotives to haul the rest out, worked. 
 
.... why don&#039;t Amtrak trains in California carry around two cars full of batteries for when the locomotive breaks down?  The wheels on diesel trains are driven by electric motors. If they dragged around two cars of batteries all the time, when the generator or engine on the locomotive broke down they could switch to battery power and get the passengers to the next station. Shouldn&#039;t cost more than 10, 15, 20 million dollars a train.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was it a power failure? Or did the trains short out, tripping their main circuit breakers? If the electronics in the drive system have shorted out having a battery with you means the main circuit breaker to the battery will trip just like the one connected to the catenary did. </p>
<p>They did think about it. a vanishingly small percentage of their annual ridership was <em>inconvenienced</em> by the extraodinarily rare break down. Transferring some of the passengers to another train and using rescue locomotives to haul the rest out, worked. </p>
<p>&#8230;. why don&#8217;t Amtrak trains in California carry around two cars full of batteries for when the locomotive breaks down?  The wheels on diesel trains are driven by electric motors. If they dragged around two cars of batteries all the time, when the generator or engine on the locomotive broke down they could switch to battery power and get the passengers to the next station. Shouldn&#8217;t cost more than 10, 15, 20 million dollars a train&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43137</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43137</guid>
		<description>@jimsf. Your story presumes you would have a rail line that goes anywhere you want to go. FAIL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jimsf. Your story presumes you would have a rail line that goes anywhere you want to go. FAIL.</p>
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		<title>By: jimsf</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43100</link>
		<dc:creator>jimsf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:35:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43100</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how big  but its seems they would have thought of a back up for such power failures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how big  but its seems they would have thought of a back up for such power failures.</p>
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		<title>By: Joey</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43066</link>
		<dc:creator>Joey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 03:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43066</guid>
		<description>UPRR owns basically everything in the East Bay and through the Tri-Valley area.  In terms of UPRR, Altamont is arguably worse than Pacheco.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UPRR owns basically everything in the East Bay and through the Tri-Valley area.  In terms of UPRR, Altamont is arguably worse than Pacheco.</p>
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		<title>By: trainsintokyo</title>
		<link>http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/palo-alto-reacts-to-2009-business-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-43048</link>
		<dc:creator>trainsintokyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 00:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2590#comment-43048</guid>
		<description>You, sir, know very little about HSR routing and cost-benefit analyses, it seems.

Fortunately, people like you will not be in charge of determining anything related to HSR, so I&#039;m not terribly worried.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You, sir, know very little about HSR routing and cost-benefit analyses, it seems.</p>
<p>Fortunately, people like you will not be in charge of determining anything related to HSR, so I&#8217;m not terribly worried.</p>
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