Monday Open Thread
Just a few items for a busy Monday:
- The first domestic HSR service in Britain went into service today. The Javelin service connects Kent to London St. Pancras, and is part of the London 2012 Olympics public transport investment plan.
- Over at the European Tribune DoDo reviews several new HSR lines that opened in Europe in 2009, including three new sections of Italian HSR. Soon after celebrating the opening of one of these lines, Italian Prime Minister and all-around thug Silvio Berlusconi was punched in the face after giving a particularly inflammatory and hateful speech.
- Teabaggers are going after Republicans who voted for rail in Florida last week. This is part of a bigger political fight in Florida within the Republican Party between the backers of conservative-but-not-insane Governor Charlie Crist and his far-right challenger for the GOP nomination in the 2010 US Senate race, Marco Rubio. Rubio himself is taking a “mushy” stance on Florida HSR, not wanting to alienate either big business or his wacko base.
- Finally, here at home, the California High Speed Rail Authority will submit its revised business plan to the legislature tomorrow. We’ll have more on that on the blog either this evening or in the morning.
“The first domestic HSR service in Britain went into service today”:
It’s not high-speed – the trains will operate at 125mph in normal service, depsite being capable of 140mph. (The same is true of the 20-year old trains used on the East Coast London-Edinburgh route)
Tony D. Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
I’ll take 125mph service any day over what we have today!
They operate at a top speed of 140 mph – so say all the press releases, unless you’ve got some inside info. Still technically not high speed according to European definitions which define it as 150 mph+ on dedicated track.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
I’m not aware of any such definition, which would correspond to 250km/h. There are plenty of intecity corridors rated at 160-230km/h, still way more than even most of the NEC. Europeans are much less hung up on the whole issue of exactly where to draw the line between regular rail and HSR than the US is. They just get on with the job of actually building infrastructure and running trains.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
I believe in Europe they define HSR to be 200 km/h or higher on upgraded track, or 250 km/h or higher on dedicated track. That’s what I read on Wikipedia, at least.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Btw, the Javelin order of 29 trainsets of 6 cars each represents the first such deal for a Japanese HSR vendor in Europe. Note that the trains were offered in two flavors, one capable of 186mph and the other limited to 140mph but offering better acceleration. The latter is more relevant when mixing commuter/regional intercity trains on the same infrastructure. The fact that electric motor designers have to trade off maximum torque against maximum speed is often lost on the general public.
Even though there are no plans to deploy it for anything but domestic routes at the moment, the class 395 supports French and Belgian signaling systems as well as those used in the UK. ERTMS level 2 was still in development at the time the design had to be frozen.
The trains are equipped with pantographs for the 25kV OCS on HS1 (St. Pancras-Ashford), where they will cruise at 140mph. They also have third rail pickups for the 750V DC legacy network (London-Dover), on which they will be limited to 100mph.
Technical details on crashworthiness and other aspects of Hitachi’s design. The car bodies and consist configuration are those of the company’s A-train platform, which was also the starting point for e.g. the class 885 tilt trains in service on JR Kyushu’s legacy 1067mm gauge network, albeit at a top speed of just 130km/h. The class 395 does not feature a tilt mechanisms.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
“The fact that electric motor designers have to trade off maximum torque against maximum speed is often lost on the general public.”
Small, marginally important nit: it’s probably just the same motor with shorter gearing on the reduction gearbox.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
True, if the design is based on asynchronous motors. Increasingly, EMU vendors are using permanent magnet synchronous motors (PMSM) attached directly to the wheelset axles without any gear box. These require slightly more sophisticated control systems but eliminating moving parts improves reliability. This shift has become possible thanks to new rare earth ferromagnetic materials that permit smaller package sizes for a given torque and power class.
However, I confess I’m not sure which type of motor Hitachi installed on the bogies of the class 395.
TomW Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 7:08 am
You want a source? Very well: Rail magazine, issue 625 (dated 26th August), page 6: “their operator Southeastern admitted they will never normally run at their 140mph maximum, but instead … run at 10% below their maximum speed” (90% of 140mph is 126mph)
Or see http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212913/British-bullet-train-hit-140mph-late.html
Rafael Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Considering the route is short and will be used by commuters, padding the timetable to ensure the trains run on time is probably more important than complying with some abstract notion of the speed at which conventional rail ends and high speed rail begins. What Southeastern is doing is prudent in that it avoids getting into Eurostar’s hair, which could have knock-on effects on HSR operations in France and Belgium.
If it turns out that Javelin service can be operated with minimal delays anyhow, a future timetable may reduce the amount of padding to 5% or even less.
There’s talk that the teabaggers and others ma split off and start their own conservative party. Which would be nice since it would mean democratic wins forever.
Travis D Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
We should just give them their own state to run as they want. They can have the Somalia type anarchy state they so desire complete with witch burnings, book burnings and whatever else their minds dream up.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Monty Python’s Holy Grail – Witch Scene
Bungle Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
this is why i dont want are HSR mixxing with AZ and NV in anyway…
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
I suspect it’s also the real reason some people keep bitching about the 99 alignment. Yes, traffic on these rails works both ways. You’re going to have to sit next to brown people (Jim, I’m looking at you), and some republicans too. Maybe if we all take train rides to these places we’ll see that they’re not just homogenous monocultures of dumb, and they’ll realize that SF isn’t just for dudes that like to kiss each other.
I’m not saying we need to start instituting a bussing situation, but mixing the population around a little can only be a good thing in the long run. Call it Hybrid Vigor, if you like.
jimsf Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
(I happen to like brown people, including brown guys kissing each other in san francisco, just as long as they are here kissing legally)
The majority of the state, even the most far flung rural areas, are pretty much as mixed as the bay and la.
Most of your pockets are very limited, practically gated communities. I mean you have your rancho mirages, and your laguna hills, and your Danville’s and Saratoga’s, but there, someone is picking the grapes.
I will have a problem allowing neocons and evangelicals on board but if there’s enough brown guys kissing on the train that should keep the undesirables away anyway.
jimsf Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
In fact once it opens I propose an hsr on board club papi night. you know, in the disco car…….
speaking of commuter overlays…
there has long been talk that an additional layer/new agency would bring commuter service to the roseville-fairfield i-80 corridor.
now ccjpa already operates service on that corridor but the thought is that a new service would focus on higher frequencies and be for local trips not for connecting to the bay.
I wonder which makes more sense though.. increasing existing service or adding a whole new agency.
I mean ccjpa plans already call for ( once the economy recovers) continuing to expand service, they are already doing more track improvements, cross overs, ading two new stations – one between fairfield and sac at vacaville and one between martinez and richmond at hercules,
they also plan to increase the number of trains serving the sac-roseville auburn section.
DOes it make sense to add a commuter agency to focus on commuters, and leave ccjpa to focus on the sac-bay market, or does it make sense to simply improve whats there using a combination of service increases local and express, etc with existing infrastructure, personnel and equipment?
This is a question that comes into play in every location that has this situation I guess.
Personally I’d rather see an expansion of ccjpa’s role rather than create a new agency. especially considering what an outstanding job they’ve done.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Caltrans Division of Rail is perfectly capable of managing a commuter rail service in addition to Capitol Corridor. I suspect the issue is that it’s a state agency yet it will be the individual counties served that will be on the hook for the operating subsidies of any regional/commuter rail service.
jimsf Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
my question is why would you waste money overlapping and existing system when you already have one in place? This is what infuriates fiscal conservatives.
DO we really need this?
It would be nice if Chain Gang Charlie supported transit that gets people within cities, and not just prestige intercity projects.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Uhm, Tri-Rail and SunRail are commuter rail programs. Not especially prestigious.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Didn’t he only agree to fund those when LaHood said they had to in order to be eligible for HSR money?
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 7:08 pm
Yes, though that applies to the Florida state legislature as well. One piquant detail is that LaHood said the state would be out of contention if it didn’t fund these commuter projects. Indeed, he threatened that USDOT would demand a refund of its $256 million share of Tri-Rail if the state didn’t finally chip in it own share.
Many Floridians chose to interpret that as a quid-pro-quo: if they held their nose and gave CSX a $600 million sweetheart deal negotiated by FDOT in addition to playing defense on Tri-Rail, LaHood would approve the $2.5 billion Florida HSR application. In fact, no such deal was offered. That doesn’t change the electoral reality that many Floridians may decide to vote as if it had been.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
No, but more useful. Even more useful would be expanding the Miami metro rail to more than one line, with more connections in the city itself rather than els in the suburbs.
Bullet train planners gauge higher costs
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2009/12/14/daily11.html
80% rise in cost due to “inflation”
$105 ticket prices
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
The $55 figure for an SF-LA ticket came from a Cambridge Systematics ridership analysis that stressed the figure was in 2005 dollars. With compounding, 3.5% general inflation would result a doubling of the nominal amount in 20 years. That’s as true of train tickets as it is of ham sandwiches.
That said, there has been some escalation of real construction costs as well. CHSRA will have to hold the line on those as best it can, including on tunnels through suburbia.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
It wasn’t that long ago that $5 pints of beer were only found in airports.
I do love the wording of this sentence though:
“The estimated price of a ticket to Los Angeles from San Francisco is now almost $105, compared with earlier estimates that projected the same ticket for $68 to $104.”
So it went from what, $104.00 to $104.79? That’s it, I’m flying.
When the cost of gas gets to $10 per gallon, the Florida Tea Bag party can hold their state convention in Orlando. All their party faithful can then take the new local commuter rail in so that they can then vote to tear all the tracks out since the trains are losing money, compared to the financial windfall that building all the roads in the state has provided. Given the high cost of gas, they will all then presumably walk home to their constituents.
RubberToe
all-around thug Silvio Berlusconi was punched in the face
No, he was hit in the face by a “metal object.” It was all over the news, even here in Japan.
From the Mountain View Voice:
Meeting on high speed rail draws 200 residents
Mountain View is a special case in the peninsula in that its station is served by both Caltrain and VTA light rail. The latter currently relies on a single dedicated track in the right of way, except for dual tracks and a platform at the station itself.
That means at least five tracks will be needed between the MV station and just south of CA-237 to accommodate four distinct rail services. At the station itself, six tracks and platforms for at least Caltrain and VTA light rail will be needed.
The many overpass bridges in the area, including two busy freeways, more or less preclude an elevated alignment for HSR there. Grade separation will have to come from running some or all of the tracks underground or else, in the form of deep road underpasses at Rengstorff and Castro. That would modify the intersections with Central Expressway and have impacts on properties abutting Rengstorff the either side.
Closing Castro entirely, diverting cross traffic to Shoreline and Whisman and, turning the downtown area into a pedestrian zone would be the most radical option but perhaps worth considering. Experience in Europe has shown that far from eliminating foot traffic for local retailers, pedestrian zones actually increase it. Cafes and restaurants with al fresco dining fare very well when vehicles and parking are removed from the equation.
Note that elevated tracks and platforms for VTA light rail might be feasible at the station, since those vehicles can negotiate steep gradients and the route terminates at the Mountain View station. A new line between downtown MV and Shoreline area east of 101 might be possible one day if NASA Ames allows VTA to construct a spur along Perimeter Road and Stevens Creek. Afaik, no plans for that exist right now.
(cross posted from Caltrain-HSR Compatibility Blog)
Joey Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Nice to see someone (in this case Doty) finally debunking some of the myths that seem to run up and down the peninsula.
Rafael Reply:
December 14th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
IIRC, he is now working for the PRP, a regional planning joint venture between Caltrain and HSR. Unlike folks at CHSRA, he’s actually worked on HSR development in the UK and also has experience in rail operations. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s always right, but his expertise and affable manner mean what he says is often better received by peninsula residents than statements by Messrs. Kopp and Diridon are.
Burlingame NIMBYs launch anti-HSR web site.
Accompanying a suitably ominous artist rendering of a strictly utilitarian wide aerial structure is the following statement: “We oppose any above-ground High Speed Rail through the middle of our communities because of the detriment this will pose to the connectivity of our neighborhoods.”
Uhm, you can walk and drive under an aerial independently of rail traffic. You can’t do that at grade crossings, let alone at points where there is currently no crossing. Once Caltrain goes to 10 trains per hour in each direction during rush hour, the gates of any remaining grade crossing could be closed for up to 50% of the time (assuming 90 second average closure periods).
There are legitimate concerns about the visual and other impacts that upgrading the peninsula corridor will have on cities, but connectivity across the right of way isn’t one of them. In terms of transportation capacity and safety, railroad grade separations do not bisect communities. Quite the reverse, they actually eliminate the barrier that at-grade tracks pose to cross traffic.
I won’t go into the other claims the web site makes, some of which appear to be based on an incomplete understanding of what is being proposed.
jimsf Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 1:48 am
How much you wanna but those scumbags over at the ca rail news are instigating this.
Rafael Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 5:02 am
Hey now, let’s not resort to name-calling and casting aspersions again. Burlingame, like other peninsula cities, has its share of NIMBYs. Some are more vocal and organized than others, they’re perfectly entitled to voice their opposition and to demand CHSRA study alternatives and/or mitigation measures. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll get what they want, but CEQA is what it is. “Priority” grade separations could be built without environmental review, but that exception arguably doesn’t apply in Burlingame. There hasn’t been a spate of accidents at any particular grade crossing nor a large increase in rail traffic volume nor a semi-permanent traffic jam there.
jimsf Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
yeh I know. but still I wonder how this stuff gets started.
jimsf Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
In the old days we used to reserve such outrage for important things like stopping the peripheral canal and saving the whales. And we did it cuz it was the right thing to do, not because we were worried about our property values.
In these modern times, it seems that that average person, who has watched 3 decades worth of people being outraged about legitimate concerns, now feels that he or she is also being put upon at every turn. Not a day goes by that someone, some group no matter how small, is hootin and hollerin about something out side my window (civic center plaza).
give it a rest people.
Hilarious Craig Ferguson bit on the joys of flying in the US resulting from the widespread practice of overbooking.
I’ve never heard of any operator deliberately overbooking a train, HSR or otherwise.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 11:10 am
DB overbooks trains – it doesn’t require everyone to have a reserved seat. For the tilting trains, this creates operational problems, because high cant deficiencies require low axle load. There’s a mechanism on the ICE-T that checks if the axle load is too high, and if it is, it disables tilting and runs the train at lower speed.
Rafael Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Well, we all know DB is run by the sharpest tools in the shed. The right approach would be to require seat reservations, just like SNCF and JR already do. These days, you can take care of that by sending a text message from your mobile phone. Reservations also help minimize dwell times at stations and the amount of time passengers are still standing or walking as the train accelerates out of the station.
Lots of people had to endure long standee trips when Germany’s Eisenbahnbundesamt (cp US FRA) forced DB to conduct emergency inspections of all wheelsets on the entire fleet of ICE3 and ICE-T trains after unexpectedly large cracks were found in some during routine maintenance. IIRC, one of the ICE3s actually suffered a broken axle just as it pulled out of a station. Luckily, no-one was hurt. In the meantime, DB and the vendors have agreed to proactively replace all wheelsets proactively, with a new designs that should last a lot longer. They did not disclose who is footing the bill for this expensive project.
In the case of the ICE3 fleet, DB’s extensive use of slab track for HSR during the day and freight at night may have contributed to the problem. In the case of the ICE-T fleet, the superstructure is heavier than that of the Alstom (previously Fiat) Pendolino trains the bogies were originally designed for. I’m not sure if the ICE-TD fleet is also affected, but those trains ply different, non-electrified corridors in eastern Germany, at lower speeds than the ICE-Ts.
jimsf Reply:
December 15th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
at amtrak we do not overbook.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
Thanks I needed a good laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTepfymeQp4
jimsf Reply:
December 16th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
those trains are over full because you can buy tickets on board. Our res system does not allow agents to sell seats that don’t exist. once it says zero. it means zero.
That does not take into account corridors where people use multi rides or trains such as surfliners and ccpja that are unreserved.
fyi.
adirondacker12800 Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 1:17 am
All the trains on the NEC are all reserved, have been since 2002 or 2003. At the big stations they want to see your ticket before they let you onto the platform. Smaller stations they want to see your ticket as you board. I’ve been on trains that are SRO when they leave Union Station for New York. It’s not unusual for the last seats to disappear at New Carrollton and there to be standees between Baltimore and Philadelphia, sometimes all the way to New York. For some reason it’s better southbound. Now if we can just get the business class idiots to listen to the announcements and go to the right part of the platform… Someday there will be through service from up here in the wilds…
jim Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 5:05 am
It’s better southbound because if you’re traveling from New York to points south of Washington, you can get a Long Distance train but still expect to arrive more or less on time. Traveling northbound, the Long Distance trains are too much of a gamble.