December Will Be A Big Month for HSR
After a quiet week on the HSR news front, December is starting off with a lot of HSR news from around the state and the country. Here are some of the key stories:
- The New York Times wonders why there are no “superprojects” under way in the country at this time, conveniently ignoring the California High Speed Rail project. Sure, ground hasn’t yet been broken, but they should have noted that not every place in America has bought into the “government is bad, mmmkay” nonsense being spread by the Reason Foundation and their ilk. It is true that the last 30 years have done damage to the concept of government-funded public works, but as we learned in the Depression such projects are essential to both short-term recovery and long-term economic stability.
- Further evidence that the day of the superproject isn’t yet over comes from Florida, where a special session on passenger rail will be held later this week. Governor Charlie Crist wants to create a statewide rail authority, modeled on the Florida Turnpike, to oversee the development of SunRail as well as the revival of the high speed rail project Jeb Bush helped kill earlier this decade. The politics here are a bit unusual, with some Republicans supporting the effort and some Democrats being more hesitant. That’s unfortunate, because Florida has as much need for HSR as we do in California.
- Meanwhile, the Midwest High Speed Rail Association and the USPIRG are holding a press conference in Chicago to draw attention to their effort to preserve the $4 billion in annual HSR funding the US House of Representatives approved, but that the US Senate is resisting. With the White House Jobs Summit later this week, you’d think the Senate would be falling all over themselves to approve this funding and create more jobs. But then, the US Senate is the place where good ideas go to die.
- The Center for the Public Integrity had a long post examining HSR lobbying groups. Although the article makes some good points, including the need to properly and fully fund a genuine plan to finally build real HSR across the country instead of parceling out small grants that can’t build whole systems, it also falls into the “omg people are lobbying for federal money!!” trap. There’s nothing inherently wrong with people asking Congress to fund HSR projects. Has the CPI examined how many defense contractors are lobbying Obama to agree to a surge in Afghanistan? If HSR is a good idea, which it is, then Congress and the White House should be able to embrace it on its merits, regardless of how many lobbyists are working on it.
- Some of those lobbyists are the “foreign suitors” seeking HSR contracts in the US. These include Siemens, which has a factory in Sacramento that could build the HSR trainsets, and Alstom, which has a factory on Mare Island currently refurbishing some Amtrak cars. Because of 30 years of US neglect of HSR, we don’t have any domestic manufacturers – we let them all collapse after the 1960s and 1970s, and so while the final assembly jobs for HSR trainsets will go to Californians, the companies making the profits will be based overseas. Further evidence why California and the US as a whole would be exceptionally stupid to abandon this chance to develop an industry of HSR train production. We desperately need to become an exporter of green, sustainable products like that; anyone who says otherwise is either not paying attention to the economic situation or is already wealthy.
- Finally, the SF Redevelopment Agency will vote today on a resolution criticizing the California High Speed Rail Authority’s efforts to explore alternatives to the Transbay Terminal as the San Francisco terminus of the HSR system.
PS: Some people aren’t getting the password notification emails sent to them after they register. Please send me an email (my last name at gmail) if you’re having this problem. One benefit of registration is you don’t have to see a captcha ever again for posting comments. As Avery notes in the comments, you may want to check your spam folder.

I thought I didn’t receive the email, but gmail thought it was junk.
There should be a way to change the “from” address for your notification emails, that should help with the spam issue, they’re currently being sent “from” cahsrblo@box419.bluehost.com
Good to hear Alstom now has a refurb shop in California. It’s not a factory but they’ve got to start somewhere. The address is 450 Pintado St, Vallejo but that’s actually on the Mare Island side.
I think Siemens will likely have the best chances of winning the contract to build the rolling stock for HSR. They already have a long-term presence in the state and have a number of very adaptable products to offer. Especially after their Velaro products have been running for a few years in China and Russia, assuming they prove to be reliable.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Anyone know which of the Rail ROWs the siemens plant is next to? is that BNSF or UPRR:
Siemens plant
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 1:04 pm
Looks like UPRR
Peter Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Heh, wouldn’t it be funny if the fact that Siemens is in Sacramento means that Sac gets HSR service sooner?
wu ming Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 5:10 pm
i certainly wouldn’t complain. anything to get that leg built ASAP.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 5:57 pm
It would indeed. I never realized that the Siemens plant is directly along the proposed route…
jimsf Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:34 pm
No. I think it will be Alstom.
for the deniers here’s a nice article about Iowa of all places… what’s going on out there in those cornfields anyway, crazy Iowans, first gay marriage and now this
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 12:59 pm
66k/year is still pretty sad though. That makes ACE look positively crowded. Good to see an upward tick, of course.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
I wonder how many ACE would get with a single run each way per day?
That’s the California Zephyr from Chicago to Emeryville that they are referring to, with its ontime percentage in the latest (August 2009) numbers (pdf) up from 4.8% in August 2008 to 66.1% in August 2009. FY2008 ridership was 376,098 (FY09 will be lower), so this is somewhere between 9% and 18% of total ridership (depending on how many trips are between Iowa stations). As the article says, getting to Dubuque and Iowa City / Quad Cities is still on the drawing board.
Peter Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
However, if you build it, they will come. Unless it’s VTA light rail.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:09 pm
That would be a light rail line built in freeway medians, so that the primary ongoing advantage of light rail in being able to bring a light rail station into a locale that is a candidate for TOD and hence help grow its own patronage is lost completely? That one?
The patronage modeling is parametrized against observed ridership, so when we see some lines outperforming their modeling because of the benefits omitted from the ridership modeling, it implies that there are some others that will underperform, because they trample the benefits omitted from the ridership modeling.
Peter Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Hey, there’s SOME TOD they’ve attempted. Look at the wonderful nearly empty high-rise next to Tamien. Or the apartments and condos next to Diridon. Oh wait, those are there mainly because of Caltrain, right?
However, there’s at least Cottle Station, that could be considered to serve the Kaiser Hospital and the gigantic apartment complex next to it.
Robert Reply:
December 7th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
I’m not sure what you mean, the Tamien high rise is nearly 100% leased, the condo building next to Diridon is empty because its still under construction…
jimsf Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
66k is pretty good considering only like 12 people live in Iowa.
It’s interesting that JR Central wants in on some US HSR projects. They don’t actually build any trains, although they do do a lot of engineering work on tracks and such.
@Robert
Any chance you could move the comments link for each article to the bottom of the article? I usually want to read the article before commenting, at which point having the link at the bottom is more convenient.
Also the link takes you to the head of the article, rather than the beginning of the comments (I assume the link is intended to take you directly to comments, as indicated by the “#comments” portion of the URL)
Thanks for the great site!
Personally, I like the AGV. It meets the 220mph requirement and combines both benefits of an average HSR train (Shinkansen and Velaro) and a TGV.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:22 pm
The more I read about it, the more I think the shinkansens are the right fit:
- They’re a smidge wider than US plate F freight cars which means you can have high (level) boarding platforms without affecting freight (an issue for caltrain/metrolink platform compatibility).
- Their platform heights are within an inch of the 4-foot high level-boarding platforms on the NEC, so finding the half-inch required to get them within the ADA regulated 5/8ths of an inch away from a 4-foot platform height shouldn’t be difficult and the NEC is about as close to a standard as we have in the US, why make a new one?
- They’re quieter than the european trains due to the obsession in japan with trackside noise, something that is incredibly important given the chosen route.
- They accelerate much faster (about 2.6km/h/s vs 1.6km/h/s), having a higher power to weight ratio than even the newest AGVs (regardless of what Alstom says), which should save us some time on both the local trains and on the uphill sections (those extra few minutes along the route could be key).
- They’re wide enough inside that ADA isle-width regulations and bathroom sizes shouldn’t be a problem.
- And last, but certainly not least, the Japanese have extensive experience with earthquake safety.
Sure, they’re ugly, but they wouldn’t have to be in the US, we would get different nose designs appropriate for the larger diameter tunnels we’ll be building here. But the compatibility with the defacto (and actual) rail standards here in the US I think is the biggest win. Siemens makes a wider version of the velaro, but it’s still a little skinnier than plate-F, they could probably make it even wider for the US.
HSRforCali Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:27 pm
What about the Bombardier Zefiro 380 or Talgo Avril? Both can reach cruising speeds of 236mph. They’re both faster than any high-speed train today, something very critical for the California system given the vast distance between LA and SF.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:37 pm
We’ll have to see when they come out. I think the noise issue is going to be key. The Zefiro version China is buying is a widebody, as far as I can tell. Same as the CRH3 Velaros. I don’t want to sit in a 3+2 coach, but we might need the extra foot of width over an AGV/Talgo/ICE to get enough space in side for wide isles and big bathrooms even in a 2+2. If there’s a couple extra inches left over to make the seats wider, even better. But the Shinkansens meet all those criteria. One potential issue is train control systems, the other is cost. The taiwanese are running their version of the 700 series with european control systems, but there was a scandal that they picked the Shinkansens over the lower bid from Alstom/Siemens.
Clem Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 8:19 pm
The train control system on Taiwan HSR is Hitachi’s Digital ATC. Not to be confused with ERTMS/ETCS being deployed on parts of Taiwan’s conventional rail network
Peter Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Yeah, but neither of them has been built yet. They are both just conceptual. Only the AGV and the Velaro are anything close to being ready for operation.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 7:18 pm
To be fair, California’s HSR system won’t be operational for another decade, at the least. Obviously, the trains will have to be chosen and tested long before then, but we’ve still got some time.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Another possible advantage of the Shinkansen over the Velaro and AGV is that the top speed constraints in Japan mean that Shinkansen technology has emphasized high acceleration and deceleration rates and the ability to operate at high cant deficiency. The N700 is capable of turning 2.5-km curves at 270 km/h, at which lateral acceleration it could turn 4.5-km curves at 360 km/h. This better performance on curves means CAHSR could build narrower curves, potentially reducing the length of tunnels and minimizing property takings.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:39 pm
I’m not sure I understand that. For any given curve radius and speed, the centripetal acceleration of the train should be the same. So unless you have tilting trains, it shouldn’t make a difference.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:40 pm
The N700 tilts up to one degree.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Hmm, so if my calculations are correct, one degree of tilt allows about an additional inch of cant deficiency.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
Yes. The tangent of 1 degree is 0.017455, which corresponds to a cant of 26 mm.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Is there even a Shinkansen model that can reach 220mph (352kph)?
Peter Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:55 pm
Not yet. It might be worth it to them to design one, though, given how many trainsets California is looking at purchasing.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Yes, though none in service. The new, tilting E5 (based on the Fastech 360) is to hit 320kph in service. The main issue is track, OCS and curve radii, apparently not the trains themselves. As stated before, the trains have more than enough power to do it, and have done higher speeds in testing. Kawasaki, I believe, said they would be producing a 360kph capable train for export markets.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 6:54 pm
FWIW, the Acela (with the big bathrooms) is 3.1m wide, versus the 2.9 for European HSR and 3.38 for the Shinkansen, 3.27 for the widebody Velaros.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Assuming that Plate F freight cars will have to be run past high-level platforms on the peninsula, the trains can’t be much narrower than 3.3m (Plate F clearance) without having a very wide gap between the train and the platform.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Right, 3-inches is the max gap, according to clem’s blog. Even US passenger rail loading guage of 3.2m would be a bit too skinny if you want to run plate-f freight past the high platform. Caltrain could run detuned and stripped down versions of the E4 “MAX” shinkansens, or something similar, which would solve the platform compatibility problem and give Caltrain their (probably unnecessary) bi-level trains.
BruceMcF Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:22 pm
STRACNET’s MIL-STD-1366 is wider than plate F – 12ft = 3.66m if I read the clearance plate on Clem’s blog correctly. The freight would not be running directly on the Express tracks in the Peninsula, but for interoperability its an issue.
Rafael Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:59 am
The arguably pointless STRACNET designation of the SF peninsula corridor is one of the reasons Caltrain probably won’t be able to harmonize the height of its platforms with HSR to ~1000mm. This is true even if CPUC were to update its GO-26 from 1948 that protects ye olde tyme railroad practice of hanging off the side of freight cars.
Samsonian Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 am
We need a lot of regulatory relief from these dumb old railroad rules. Especially if that’s the hold up to level boarding with harmonized platform heights.
Do we need a FRA waiver for the STRACNET designation as well?
I’m surprised that CalTrain is able to support a loading gauge that wide (wider that AAR Plate F and H). Does anyone know the distance between the platform and the railcar? If it’s true the gap must be more than a foot across.
jimsf Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:37 pm
HURRAY for AGV. Of course that is the correct choice. Everyone knows that.
jimsf Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Apparently Talgo has been making trains for long time, including this model they made for the Martians.
Peter Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I guess they have cows on Mars, too. Hence the cow-pusher.
But seriously, that is a weird looking train. Anyone know any details on it?
Rafael Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:11 am
Actually, not everyone knows that. SNCF is still ordering TGV Duplex rolling stock but it has not ordered a single AGV yet.
Alon Levy is quite correct to point out that the N700 shinkansen is superior in many respects, including acceleration. This is very significant in California as many of the smaller HSR stations will have only two – not four – HSR tracks. The big question is if the Japanese designs could negotiate the tight corners in the DTX tunnel in San Francisco.
Andre Peretti Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:52 am
The SNCF wants double-deckers. The Gare de Lyon (TGV med) is saturated, the trunk line of the TGV Med is also saturated. The AGV’s 360km/h speed can’t be exploited on this line which has been designed for 300km/h. Another reason which the SNCF doesn’t state publicly: high drivers’ salaries and perks. Duplex=double paying load, 1 driver.
Alon Levy Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
I thought they said that they could run 19 tph with ERTMS 2, up from the 10 they’re running now.
jimsf Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
They cant. Oh well, too bad for them.
Samsonian Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 am
Don’t be silly Jim.
We shouldn’t be designing in major deficiencies like that into the system. We know better.
The latest Shinkansen designs are just as valid a trainset as any of its competitors, and as noted above, has several key advantages.
The point is the system should be designed to handle as many trainsets as practical. This avoids costly vendor lock-in (a la BART), as well creates competition and choice among vendors, resulting in lower costs and better performance.
Andrew Reply:
December 5th, 2009 at 5:39 am
Rafael, you mean to say that local-only stations won’t have bypass tracks? I’m no expert on the subject, but I don’t see how expresses will run with any sort of frequency if that’s the case.
The only two-track shinkansen station I’ve seen is Shin-Kobe, but all trains stop there regardless of service level.
Well Robert over at California Progress report puts on his economist hat and declares
CalPERS, for its part, should start investing in sustainable projects. One specific thing they could do is invest money in our high speed rail project, and be repaid out of some of the operating surpluses from the trains.
All I can say, is thank heavens Robert is not a trustee of CalPERS. For that pension fund to even think about investing in the Highly risky venture would be the most outrageous act for any trustee to propose.
What really should happen is this project should stop and stop now. The State has way too much debt and Robert just taxing everybody is not the way to solve the problem.
While I’m at it, I’m just compare the credentials of Wendell Cox and Joseph Vranich (a life long Democract I might add), authors of the Reason Report to yours.
You say you have debunked their report. Nonsense. You just spin your tales. These guys did the research, they understand what a lousy hopeless project this is.
Its your blog, say what you want — you can censor what you want, but you just go way overboard and quite frankly I think most of even the pro HSR people realize that.
Rafael Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:17 am
WordPress held back on publishing this comment until approval by an administrator. Did you intend it to appear on this page or or on a prior post? If it’s the latter, I suspect WordPress may have a bug.
looking on Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 am
Rafael:
I don’t recall how I entered this comment. I do know that I thought it had not been published since I didn’t see it when I later went back, so I know that its appearance had been delayed.
BTW, does this blog accept HTML?
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
A little bit, it seems. Links at least. Let’s try some (I’m curious too):
strong tag
bold tag
emphasis tag
italic tag
this is anunorderedlist of stuff
this is anorderedlist of stuff
table celltable cell
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
So normal stuff then, links and formatting, no lists, tables or other crap. Pretty standard, similar to blogger.
Rafael Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Both Blogger and WordPress hold comments made some number of days after the original post was published, until those comments have been approved by an administrator. It’s an anti-spam precaution, but sometimes legitimate comments get caught up in the dragnet. Sorry about that.
As for HTML, some tags are accepted: , , . This was also the case on Blogger.
Rafael Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Ahem, make that <a>, <b>, <i> HTML tags.
Spokker Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 2:19 am
I agree that, ideally, California should not be funding this project on the level it’s trying to. High speed rail corridors need to be primarily funded by the federal government, at least initially, similar in scope of the Interstate Highway System (though I wouldn’t start a high speed rail trust fund or anything like that).
California is screwed without federal aid anyway.
This is ridiculous. Every time I go to log in, I get another error message and none of my passwords or log in info works. I have been round and round with this.
Joey Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Tried resetting your password?
jimsf Reply:
December 1st, 2009 at 11:40 pm
yes, once again. I stated all over and re registered . again. …
YOu know I totally don’t get how this blog works, I try to reply to someone and my reply turns up way over someplace else no where near where I clicked. I miss the old blog. It was so easy to use. Thi one I have to go back and forth and read here and here. its really confusing.
and once I reply, then the place where I was reading is gone and I have to scroll all through the blog, ( and the whole thing looks the same cuz there’s no avatars or fonts or anything,) to find my place to continue reading the thread.
andwhat about delete? what if you want to delete your comment? I don’t see a delete button.
Peter Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 11:19 am
Last i heard, there is no delete function.
In other rail news: “The Proposition 1A (CA High Speed Rail) bonds, approved by California voters in the November 2008 general election, offer another potential funding source for the Capitol Corridor. Of the $9.95 billion allotted for the high speed train system, $190 million is designated for the State’s intercity rail corridors to connect with high speed trains.****** Each of the three existing corridors is to get $47.5 million, with the remaining $47.5 million to be allocated on a competitive basis.***** Currently, the California Transportation Commission (CTC) is developing guidelines to allocate these Proposition 1A bond funds to connecting intercity rail and mass transit services. The CCJPA is optimally positioned to be a distributor and connecting service to the high speed trains. As such, it has identified a list of track infrastructure projects between Sacramento and San Jose that will improve reliability, decrease travel times, and add Capitol Corridor trains to/from San Jose (a major high speed train terminal) and Sacramento (a later phase high speed intermodal terminal).”
from this report businessplan
wu ming Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:14 am
nice.
wow thats 142 million for Amtrak California to upgrade CCJPA, San Joaquins, and Smurfliners! (47.5m each) cool beans!
and curtains for all! “To keep the train cars looking fresh and new, Amtrak and Caltrans will start replacing carpets, cloth wainscot, and seat upholstery on all coaches in the Amtrak California fleet beginning in February 2009. ***Window curtains*** will also be added exclusively on the Northern California fleet.”
If one looks at (by far and away) the most successful new non-Chinese HSR program on the planet — Spain’s — one will note:
* There was basically NO “domestic content” (ie unskilled, shoddy, incompetent make-work assembly by local yokels) in the design or vehicle construction of the starter system.
That initial line, Madrid-Sevilla, using quite literally off-the-shelf track, overhead and signalling (German) and vehicles (French) was on time, on budget, technically unambitious, risk-averse, and a massive success.
* As a direct result, Spain had a great record to build on, politically and technically. And building wildly it is. Compare and contrast with the world-class failures in the backgrounds of PB (= BART), Quentin Kopp (= BART), Rod Diridon (= VTA rail), etc.
* Spain’s growing system today adheres to international standards for signalling (ETCS/ERTMS), track design, electrification and platform interface (UIC, UIC TSI) and a a result ADIF and RENFE are able to procure working designs from multiple vendors (their extensive first-adopter teething problems with Siemens AVE S-103 notwithstanding and now overcome.)
* Spain has a policy of procuring vehicles and systems from multiple vendors, to avoid the sort of rent-seeking, sole-source vendor lock-in for which PB’s offspring BART is the poster child. Spain’s continues to order HS trains from Alstom, CAF, Bombardier, Talgo and Siemens, ensuring that there is the semblance of a real market for competitive products, not just “take it of leave it” from a politically fixed sole source sleaze-master. Likewise ETCS train control (Ansaldo, Thales, Invensys, Alstom)
* After having inaugurated a successful first system using 100% proven, foreign expertise and design, Spain has transitioned to higher domestic content (eg Velaros assembly) and, more impoortantly, to becoming a global leader in vehicle and system design and integration.
Spain in 1986, which AVE Madrid-Sevilla was decided upon, was very much a technically backward, third-world (in rail terms) country, recently emerging form a fascist dictatorship. (Parallels somewhere? We can only hope.)
By a cautious program of adopting (ie copying) proven systems, going for “low hanging fruit” in route choice, ridership and engineering (contrast Pacheco), gradually building local expertise over time, using adherence to standards to promote multi-vendor competition, and actively avoiding sole source vendor capture, the country has achieved a outstandingly successful and spectacularly fast-growing network, with huge political support and the lowest construction costs anywhere (despite piles of globally notable engineering feats in the bridge and tunnel departments — it’s not a flat country.)
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:20 pm
All with ballast track construction too! ;-)
Peter Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
And I bet that people just like you were making the same sort of complaints about their system design as you and others are making about CA’s planned system, as well.
looking on Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Not widely know is that some preliminary work done about 30 years ago was done here in the
US at the Stanford Research Institute.
jimsf Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Your inability to make a single post without deriding kopp and diridon renders your points irrelevant. Clearly you have some kind of hard on for them. Give it a rest.
Rafael Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:13 am
IIRC, there were persistent rumors of an nderhanded quid pro quo deal with the French at the time: Spain buys a French HSR line and TGV trainsets, France cracks down on ETA safe houses in the three Basque provinces on the French side. The Seville EXPO provided Spanish politicians with a fig leaf at the time. The Madrid-Barcelona travel market was far larger even back then, but Andalucia was a political stronghold of the PSOE government of the day.
Richard Mlynarik Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm
“Madrid-Barcelona travel market was far larger even back then, but Andalucia was a political stronghold of the PSOE government”
Madrid-Sevilla was a low-risk undertaking.
Start with success. Unlike CHSRA.
Madrid-Barcelona is far longer, far more technically challenging, higher speed, and far riskier — as the years of delay in completion demonstrated.
And Sevilla was the site of the Expo 1992, for whatever reason. Barcelona wasn’t.
Spain built the right line between the right city pairs at the right way at the right time in the right way.
Low risk, unambitious technology, no original “research”, no wheel reinvention, no sheltered workshop Colarado Railcar make-work, no world records for anything except for fantastically low cost.
And to think they did it all because of ETA! Not sure how that explains the LZB signalling and the Re catenary and the NBS track, or retroactively makes ICE-1 or anything else a viable commerically successful alternative to TGV-Atlantique back in 1989, but, like, whatever.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:32 pm
That CHRSA should start with a smaller line is a new argument to me. What cities would you propose the technologically-simple, lower-speed line connect? Other than running a train from Fresno to Bako (hardly comparable to Madrid-Anything), any route in CA is going to involve tunnels, wetlands, mountains and fault lines.
AndyDuncan Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:33 pm
And weren’t Spain’s trains the world’s fastest in operation when they launched?
wu ming Reply:
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
i assume sevilla got the world expo because barcelona got the olympics.
Andre Peretti Reply:
December 4th, 2009 at 4:07 am
The “persistent rumors” were spread by ETA. The truth is ETA had long been considered in France as a democratic anti-fascist movement. When they started randomly killing civilians and (mostly French) tourists they lost all public support even in the French Basque territory. As torture and summary executions no longer existed in Spain, nothing prevented legally extraditing ETA leaders from France.
There is an Anglo-French parallel. For years, Algerian islamists planting bombs in Paris had found a safe haven in London. When they began to be a threat for England itself, then did Scotland Yard start to cooperate with French police.
Richard’s explanation is the right one: technically and economically choosing the TGV was a no-brainer.