Comments on: 2009: The Year In California HSR http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=2009-the-year-in-california-hsr California High Speed Rail support blog, spreading news and info about the high speed trains project approved by California voters in November 2008. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:34:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: adirondacker12800 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-45036 adirondacker12800 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:53:39 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-45036 I think the 85 million is for the tunnel itself. Before they do things like put in tracks and signals and doesn't include ventilation etc. I think the 85 million is for the tunnel itself. Before they do things like put in tracks and signals and doesn’t include ventilation etc.

]]> By: adirondacker12800 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-45035 adirondacker12800 Tue, 05 Jan 2010 21:51:24 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-45035 The problems of building them outside of the Navel of The Universe a.k.a. California, where ever that turns out to be, aren't insurmountable. Flat cars or well cars make almost all of the problems disappear. EMD and GE ship much heavier locomotives all over the world. Bombardier ships ALP locomotives to the US so ocean shipping isn't a problem. Shipping parts versus shipping whole cars along with Buy-American restrictions are probably going to make building in North America very competitive. "build a new plant in high cost California for a one time order", which is what gets the California foamers all frothy, isn't going to be competitive. The problems of building them outside of the Navel of The Universe a.k.a. California, where ever that turns out to be, aren’t insurmountable. Flat cars or well cars make almost all of the problems disappear. EMD and GE ship much heavier locomotives all over the world. Bombardier ships ALP locomotives to the US so ocean shipping isn’t a problem. Shipping parts versus shipping whole cars along with Buy-American restrictions are probably going to make building in North America very competitive. “build a new plant in high cost California for a one time order”, which is what gets the California foamers all frothy, isn’t going to be competitive.

]]> By: Streetsblog Los Angeles » Recent Headlines http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44883 Streetsblog Los Angeles » Recent Headlines Mon, 04 Jan 2010 13:12:07 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44883 [...] The Year in High Speed Rail (CAHSR Blog) [...] [...] The Year in High Speed Rail (CAHSR Blog) [...]

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44837 Alon Levy Sun, 03 Jan 2010 23:16:51 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44837 Curve radii may not be a problem on the New York Central route and in the Midwest, but gauge tolerance is. High-speed trains are designed for a gauge of 1,435±1 mm, not 1,435 +25/-13 mm. That reason alone may force the use of trucks or flatcars. I'm not sure labor costs at the plants in the US are lower than in Europe, what with the health care markup. The Yonkers plant employs non-union workers, and I presume the other plants serving the MTA have to Curve radii may not be a problem on the New York Central route and in the Midwest, but gauge tolerance is. High-speed trains are designed for a gauge of 1,435±1 mm, not 1,435 +25/-13 mm. That reason alone may force the use of trucks or flatcars.

I’m not sure labor costs at the plants in the US are lower than in Europe, what with the health care markup. The Yonkers plant employs non-union workers, and I presume the other plants serving the MTA have to

]]> By: adirondacker12800 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44833 adirondacker12800 Sun, 03 Jan 2010 22:03:40 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44833 Not sending them through Altoona solves the Altoona curve problem and that's only if they go with Rotem/Hyundai in Philadelphia. If the train gets assembled in Hornell it's not going through Pennsylvania until it gets to the Erie area. If it's assembled in Yonkers it's going to go through Selkirk Buffalo and Erie. If they use one of the plants in the Midwest it's definitely not going through Altoona. Manufacturing cars in Europe means sending the parts from all over the world to Europe, assembling them using high wage Europeans and shipping the cars across oceans. That's expensive. A lot easier to ship the parts from all over the world to North America to be assembled by low wage North Americans and avoid the expensive ocean voyage for the assembled train. I'm sure the inspectors at the FRA would love it. A trip to France or Germany is a lot more exciting than a trip to Hornell or Yonkers. Not sending them through Altoona solves the Altoona curve problem and that’s only if they go with Rotem/Hyundai in Philadelphia. If the train gets assembled in Hornell it’s not going through Pennsylvania until it gets to the Erie area. If it’s assembled in Yonkers it’s going to go through Selkirk Buffalo and Erie. If they use one of the plants in the Midwest it’s definitely not going through Altoona.

Manufacturing cars in Europe means sending the parts from all over the world to Europe, assembling them using high wage Europeans and shipping the cars across oceans. That’s expensive. A lot easier to ship the parts from all over the world to North America to be assembled by low wage North Americans and avoid the expensive ocean voyage for the assembled train. I’m sure the inspectors at the FRA would love it. A trip to France or Germany is a lot more exciting than a trip to Hornell or Yonkers.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44689 Alon Levy Sat, 02 Jan 2010 02:48:09 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44689 Towing runs into problems of curve radii and gauge tolerance. For example, the Altoona horseshoe curve is too tight for some HSR trains. They'll probably send the trains by truck or on top of flatcars. Or they'll manufacture them abroad and send them on barges. Towing runs into problems of curve radii and gauge tolerance. For example, the Altoona horseshoe curve is too tight for some HSR trains.

They’ll probably send the trains by truck or on top of flatcars. Or they’ll manufacture them abroad and send them on barges.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44676 Alon Levy Sat, 02 Jan 2010 01:00:05 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44676 $85 million for a half-mile tunnel is a bargain. In most first-world cities I've checked, a half-mile of subway costs $200-400 million. Sure, you can employ more people than 70 laborers and a dozen engineers, but that raises costs to the New York level of $1.3 billion per half-mile. $85 million for a half-mile tunnel is a bargain. In most first-world cities I’ve checked, a half-mile of subway costs $200-400 million. Sure, you can employ more people than 70 laborers and a dozen engineers, but that raises costs to the New York level of $1.3 billion per half-mile.

]]> By: adirondacker12800 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44631 adirondacker12800 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:22:50 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44631 Makes a lot more sense to assemble the trains in plants that already exist and tow them cross country. Those plants could wedge the medium sized order California will be placing in between the stuff they do for their larger customers. Makes a lot more sense to assemble the trains in plants that already exist and tow them cross country. Those plants could wedge the medium sized order California will be placing in between the stuff they do for their larger customers.

]]> By: adirondacker12800 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44630 adirondacker12800 Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:15:31 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44630 Water tunnels don't need track, signals, ventilation, emergency evacuation routes etc. And a 12' tunnel isn't big enough for trains unless you want to put one of those trains the model railroader put in their garden. One big enough to put passenger trains into and that's safe for the passengers would cost a bit more. Water tunnels don’t need track, signals, ventilation, emergency evacuation routes etc. And a 12′ tunnel isn’t big enough for trains unless you want to put one of those trains the model railroader put in their garden. One big enough to put passenger trains into and that’s safe for the passengers would cost a bit more.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/12/2009-the-year-in-california-hsr/comment-page-1/#comment-44531 Elizabeth Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:46:14 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/?p=2674#comment-44531 Here is an interesting article on a 1/2 mile tunnel they are digging for the Washington Metro http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/17/AR2009101700716.html It will cost $85 million and take almost 2 1/2 years to complete. At its peak, it will employ 70 laborers and a dozen engineers, a hand picked crew from around the world. (It does not say how many people on average will be working). It will use machines that are just as global: " Like the laborers and engineers that drive them, the electricity-driven machines come from far-off places and have exotic names to match: the ITC 312 "knuckle boom" from Germany; the Putzmeister Sika PM 500 from Spain; the ETC18, a.k.a. "drill jumbo," from Sweden, a colossus that can bore through anything from bedrock to clay, Cerulli says. They're impressive. But, as Cerulli notes, "every one is operated by one or two guys."" Here is an interesting article on a 1/2 mile tunnel they are digging for the Washington Metro http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/17/AR2009101700716.html

It will cost $85 million and take almost 2 1/2 years to complete. At its peak, it will employ 70 laborers and a dozen engineers, a hand picked crew from around the world. (It does not say how many people on average will be working). It will use machines that are just as global:

” Like the laborers and engineers that drive them, the electricity-driven machines come from far-off places and have exotic names to match: the ITC 312 “knuckle boom” from Germany; the Putzmeister Sika PM 500 from Spain; the ETC18, a.k.a. “drill jumbo,” from Sweden, a colossus that can bore through anything from bedrock to clay, Cerulli says. They’re impressive. But, as Cerulli notes, “every one is operated by one or two guys.”"

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