Comments on: Homeland Security Theater http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=homeland-security-theater California High Speed Rail support blog, spreading news and info about the high speed trains project approved by California voters in November 2008. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:34:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55457 Alon Levy Sat, 18 Apr 2009 06:46:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55457 If the costs are deliberately bloated, then the contractors are likelier to offer higher bids for the same work. This will just transfer money from the State of California to the contractors. It's good for stimulus, but bad for getting the project done. If the costs are deliberately bloated, then the contractors are likelier to offer higher bids for the same work. This will just transfer money from the State of California to the contractors. It’s good for stimulus, but bad for getting the project done.

]]> By: Rafael http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55441 Rafael Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:35:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55441 @ Alon Levy, mike -<br /><br />I'm sure that pretty much all the numbers are padded a little to provide some additional hidden contingency fees. The fencing is just 1% of the total cost, at this point there's little value in optimizing that one aspect. The really sharp calculations will only come when vendors have to compete on the bases of the completed project-level EIR/EIS in open tender.<br /><br />Btw, 780 miles is more like 1250km. @ Alon Levy, mike -

I’m sure that pretty much all the numbers are padded a little to provide some additional hidden contingency fees. The fencing is just 1% of the total cost, at this point there’s little value in optimizing that one aspect. The really sharp calculations will only come when vendors have to compete on the bases of the completed project-level EIR/EIS in open tender.

Btw, 780 miles is more like 1250km.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55438 Alon Levy Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:15:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55438 Mike: my concern isn't that fences will cost too much, but that everything will. Mike: my concern isn’t that fences will cost too much, but that everything will.

]]> By: mike http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55430 mike Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:43:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55430 $100 per meter doesn't seem like it would be a big deal. Entire system (including spurs) is around 1,000 km, so you have 2,000 km of fencing. That works out to $200 million on a $45,000 million system. Sounds pretty reasonable. $100 per meter doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal. Entire system (including spurs) is around 1,000 km, so you have 2,000 km of fencing. That works out to $200 million on a $45,000 million system. Sounds pretty reasonable.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55418 Alon Levy Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:27:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55418 The fence material isn't that expensive, either. I'm not saying they should skimp, but I am saying that if the cost estimate here is excessive, maybe other parts of the project have overblown costs, too. The project does cost more per km than comparable HSR projects around the world, even after subtracting the costs of tunneling under Pacheco and the Tehachapis. The fence material isn’t that expensive, either. I’m not saying they should skimp, but I am saying that if the cost estimate here is excessive, maybe other parts of the project have overblown costs, too. The project does cost more per km than comparable HSR projects around the world, even after subtracting the costs of tunneling under Pacheco and the Tehachapis.

]]> By: Rafael http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55416 Rafael Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:58:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55416 @ Alon Levy -<br /><br />the fence material isn't free. Besides, this is one aspect they shouldn't skimp on. I'd say heavy gauge wire and 8' tall, minimum. @ Alon Levy -

the fence material isn’t free. Besides, this is one aspect they shouldn’t skimp on. I’d say heavy gauge wire and 8′ tall, minimum.

]]> By: Spokker http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55414 Spokker Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:26:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55414 I don't want to see airport style security on trains. If that's what's going to happen I would never ride another train again.<br /><br />The security dramatics don't really work. And if I'm going to get blown to bits I might as well get blown to bits and not have to deal with airport style security. I don’t want to see airport style security on trains. If that’s what’s going to happen I would never ride another train again.

The security dramatics don’t really work. And if I’m going to get blown to bits I might as well get blown to bits and not have to deal with airport style security.

]]> By: Alon Levy http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55407 Alon Levy Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:03:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55407 Where do they get the cost of $100 per meter of fence from? It sounds excessive - it implies it takes two and a half man-hours to erect a meter of fence even at union wage; at market wage, make that five. Where do they get the cost of $100 per meter of fence from? It sounds excessive – it implies it takes two and a half man-hours to erect a meter of fence even at union wage; at market wage, make that five.

]]> By: Andrew Bogan http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55404 Andrew Bogan Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:56:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55404 It is noteworthy that Obama joked today about "not having to take your shoes off" with regard to benefits of HSR. Sounds like airport-style security is (happily) very unlikely. It is noteworthy that Obama joked today about “not having to take your shoes off” with regard to benefits of HSR. Sounds like airport-style security is (happily) very unlikely.

]]> By: Rafael http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/homeland-security-theater/comment-page-1/#comment-55394 Rafael Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:22:00 +0000 http://www.cahsrblog.com/2009/04/16/homeland-security-theater/#comment-55394 @ mike -<br /><br />I appreciate your point, but my intent was to focus on rail security. This may not be the appropriate forum for spelling out in detail novel ways to blow stuff up.<br /><br />Fwiw, the Golden Gate bridge is a suspension design, which means it is <a HREF="http://goldengatebridge.org/research/factsGGBDesign.php#Bridgedeflection" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">a lot more flexible</a> than you might think. For example, the lateral displacement of the center span during a gale in 1951 was twenty-four feet (!), still well within tolerance. The design also features a lot of static redundancy. @ mike -

I appreciate your point, but my intent was to focus on rail security. This may not be the appropriate forum for spelling out in detail novel ways to blow stuff up.

Fwiw, the Golden Gate bridge is a suspension design, which means it is a lot more flexible than you might think. For example, the lateral displacement of the center span during a gale in 1951 was twenty-four feet (!), still well within tolerance. The design also features a lot of static redundancy.

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